Prayer

[James Banta]

Lord. Many of us your children are hurting today.. You have promised to carry our burdens and take our deserved chastisement while giving us your peace.. You are faithful and deserving of praise so we stand in awe of your goodness and faithfulness.

You know Lord that we come here because you commanded us to go into the whole world with your message of love, and reconciliation through your work on the Cross.. We ask you Lord not to allow your word to return vain but that the truth will echo through the ages..

Strengthen these you have called to be messengers to those who believe that your grace comes to them only after all they can do, Show these that no one ever achieves that level of of striving for perfection.. That perfection can only be found in you as you take our sin, our hurts changing them to your righteousness, your love for all who trust you and believe that you are here with us always even to the end of the age..

The names we use here can be a bit funny but behind them you know us as your children, those you have redeemed by your blood.. I ask for you to touch Real Fake Hair, Ma'am, Apologette, Neverending, BillyMay, and yes Lord even the lowest of them all, me with your grace to continue this work.. There are those out there we can still reach and lift up with your word.. The work that has been done to show the LDS that they are looking in the wrong direction, That there is nothing in them or any man whether they call them apostles, prophets, presidents, bishops or elders that can show them the way of life.. That only in You lays the one Way, to the Truth, that will bring us to the Life. You Lord are that way and we praise you for who you have done as we rest in the arms of your Love.. IHS jim

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Lord. Many of us your children are hurting today.. You have promised to carry our burdens and take our deserved chastisement while giving us your peace.. You are faithful and deserving of praise so we stand in awe of your goodness and faithfulness.

You know Lord that we come here because you commanded us to go into the whole world with your message of love, and reconciliation through your work on the Cross.. We ask you Lord not to allow your word to return vain but that the truth will echo through the ages..

Strengthen these you have called to be messengers to those who believe that your grace comes to them only after all they can do, Show these that no one ever achieves that level of of striving for perfection.. That perfection can only be found in you as you take our sin, our hurts changing them to your righteousness, your love for all who trust you and believe that you are here with us always even to the end of the age..

The names we use here can be a bit funny but behind them you know us as your children, those you have redeemed by your blood.. I ask for you to touch Real Fake Hair, Ma'am, Apologette, Neverending, BillyMay, and yes Lord even the lowest of them all, me with your grace to continue this work.. There are those out there we can still reach and lift up with your word.. The work that has been done to show the LDS that they are looking in the wrong direction, That there is nothing in them or any man whether they call them apostles, prophets, presidents, bishops or elders that can show them the way of life.. That only in You lays the one Way, to the Truth, that will bring us to the Life. You Lord are that way and we praise you for who you have done as we rest in the arms of your Love.. IHS jim

Amen! And may the Lord open the eyes of those who are looking into this site to research the truth. May they learn not only the truth about Mormonism, but may they see the Blessed Gospel of Jesus Christ taught and loved by those who cherish your Holy Son, in Whose Name I pray. Amen.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Amen! And may the Lord open the eyes of those who are looking into this site to research the truth. May they learn not only the truth about Mormonism, but may the see the Blessed Gospel of Jesus Christ taught and loved by those who cherish your Holy Son, in Whose Name I pray. Amen.

And may we approach the lost with love and overlook any anger they may project onto us. May we most of all, have patience, for having once been a Mormon, to change a way of thinking that one had for most of their life is not easy. To realize that lies have been told to you all your life is very upsetting and yes, it is understandable that people will lash out. God bless those who hear our message of hope that they will not be afraid.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by neverending

And may we approach the lost with love and overlook any anger they may project onto us. May we most of all, have patience, for having once been a Mormon, to change a way of thinking that one had for most of their life is not easy. To realize that lies have been told to you all your life is very upsetting and yes, it is understandable that people will lash out. God bless those who hear our message of hope that they will not be afraid.

Neverending---this reminded me so much of the Rameumptom prayer.

Thank you so much we are chosen and saved and that we are NOT like those other poor ****ed souls--etc, etc.

Here is something you said to me:

You are a heartless witch!!

You know---the most amazing thing to me is that I have had the spirit bear witness to me of the truthfulness of the gospel. I have had it bear witness to me of that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I have lived by the truths I have received and I am happy. I see the good it brings into my life. I have peace in my life. I come here only to defend against accusations made against my beliefs.

I have read, heard, seen all of your criticisms of my beliefs and to me, it is the equivalent of 200 year old gossip. A version of "he-said, she-said" long ago.

It helps me understand more so what Christ said:

Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

If I was to do what you do and let my own experiences "wax gross" and instead try to discern truth by dwelling on what other people say or think--then I too would believe as you do. But I have witnessed with my own eyes and heard with my own ears MY LIFE today---MY EXPERIENCES today--I have understood with my heart!

And because of that, I know what you witness and preach is not true. It is false. And it is why you get on here and get so upset when someone even questions your own experiences (and call me a witch). If you can't talk about your own life and your own experiences and must dwell on your perceived flaws of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young---you have nothing but chaff ****ing in the wind.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Lord. Many of us your children are hurting today.. You have promised to carry our burdens and take our deserved chastisement while giving us your peace.. You are faithful and deserving of praise so we stand in awe of your goodness and faithfulness.

You know Lord that we come here because you commanded us to go into the whole world with your message of love, and reconciliation through your work on the Cross.. We ask you Lord not to allow your word to return vain but that the truth will echo through the ages..

Strengthen these you have called to be messengers to those who believe that your grace comes to them only after all they can do, Show these that no one ever achieves that level of of striving for perfection.. That perfection can only be found in you as you take our sin, our hurts changing them to your righteousness, your love for all who trust you and believe that you are here with us always even to the end of the age..

The names we use here can be a bit funny but behind them you know us as your children, those you have redeemed by your blood.. I ask for you to touch Real Fake Hair, Ma'am, Apologette, Neverending, BillyMay, and yes Lord even the lowest of them all, me with your grace to continue this work.. There are those out there we can still reach and lift up with your word.. The work that has been done to show the LDS that they are looking in the wrong direction, That there is nothing in them or any man whether they call them apostles, prophets, presidents, bishops or elders that can show them the way of life.. That only in You lays the one Way, to the Truth, that will bring us to the Life. You Lord are that way and we praise you for who you have done as we rest in the arms of your Love.. IHS jim

James, you SAY you believe this and then say:

This person isn't worth our time..

How can someone who understands that it is only through His grace you have any hope turn around and treat someone like this?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

James, you SAY you believe this and then say:


How can someone who understands that it is only through His grace you have any hope turn around and treat someone like this?

Because the Scripture clearly states that we are to have no fellowship with darkness, nor are we to cast pearls before those who will turn and trod them down.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by neverending

And may we approach the lost with love and overlook any anger they may project onto us. May we most of all, have patience, for having once been a Mormon, to change a way of thinking that one had for most of their life is not easy. To realize that lies have been told to you all your life is very upsetting and yes, it is understandable that people will lash out. God bless those who hear our message of hope that they will not be afraid.

You know, my theology is Reformed-based. When there is a consistent denial of the message of Christ, you wipe off your sandals and move on. There may be a person down the road whose heart has been prepared to receive the Gospel. Nobody can come to Christ until God has regenerated their hearts - for the spiritually dead can believe nothing. We can spend years trying to convert someone spiritually dead, but miss the one God's has, Himself, prepared to receive the Word of God. Seeds sown on rocky ground do not take root - the plant whithers and dies, having no root. However, the fertile and good ground produces healthy plants, and brings forth fruit. We must always be sensitive to where God wants us to cast the seeds, and where He tells us, "no more casting."

Matt. 13
3 The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.

2 And great mul***udes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole mul***ude stood on the shore.

3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Because the Scripture clearly states that we are to have no fellowship with darkness, nor are we to cast pearls before those who will turn and trod them down.

Oh, okay. But don't you see me as "darkness" then? Why are you talking to me?

By the way, I perceive you as someone who trods on our pearls---but we barely even talk about what is precious to you. It appears this site is mostly to "trod" on the beliefs of Mormons and others you disagree with.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Oh, okay. But don't you see me as "darkness" then? Why are you talking to me?

By the way, I perceive you as someone who trods on our pearls---but we barely even talk about what is precious to you. It appears this site is mostly to "trod" on the beliefs of Mormons and others you disagree with.

You think Mormon beliefs are pearls? Mormon teachings are impostor pearls, if anything. Sorry, but you are in darkness, Julie. And only God can deliver you, not me. We can only tell the truth here. We can not have fellowship with you. Look, Julie, your cult claims that my beliefs are an abomination, and that your idol god appeared to Joseph Smith, a treasure hunter and teller of tall tales, to explicitly state that Christians are all corrupt. What do you expect Christians to do - embrace that trash? Sorry, but Mormonism is darkness, and if you continued in it, you will be eternally in darkness.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

You think Mormon beliefs are pearls? Mormon teachings are impostor pearls, if anything. Sorry, but you are in darkness, Julie. And only God can deliver you, not me. We can only tell the truth here. We can not have fellowship with you. Look, Julie, your cult claims that my beliefs are an abomination, and that your idol god appeared to Joseph Smith, a treasure hunter and teller of tall tales, to explicitly state that Christians are all corrupt. What do you expect Christians to do - embrace that trash? Sorry, but Mormonism is darkness, and if you continued in it, you will be eternally in darkness.

All I see here, Apologette, is a glorified gossip column. A place that enjoys trying to dig up dirt (often perceived by not true) on other religions and then glorify themselves in the spreading of it. Nothing more.

If you haven't noticed, this place is darkness. It brings out the worst in people. It has people treating others terribly. It feeds on the sick and the vulnerable. It is sad.

You, yourself, come across as if you are ranting 90% of the time. I think if I met you in real life, I would probably find you are a fairly nice person. But on here, you seem vicious and mean. And when others speak, I think they see me the same way as well. But most people I know like me and we get along great. I enjoy life. I have been very blessed. But in here, when I read my own posts to defend my beliefs...I think, wow, enter the cesspool of this place, and we all start looking like crud.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

All I see here, Apologette, is a glorified gossip column. A place that enjoys trying to dig up dirt (often perceived by not true) on other religions and then glorify themselves in the spreading of it. Nothing more.

And seeing, they will not see; and hearing, they will not hear.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

And seeing, they will not see; and hearing, they will not hear.

Lest they understand with their heart and I should heal them.....

Merry Christmas Apologette. May the season bring you much happiness.

And may we see each other as both loved children of God.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

James, you SAY you believe this and then say:


How can someone who understands that it is only through His grace you have any hope turn around and treat someone like this?

I was wrong in not wanting to WASTE TIME WITH SOMEONE WHO

1. Will not engage in conversation.
2. Calls every answer wrong though it came directly from Brigham Young's comments on the necessity to live the Law of celestial marriage.
3. Doesn't address any question directed at him.
4. Uses personal attacks to fend off the question about polygamy.. The Guy flat called me a liar.. When was the last time you saw me do that to anyone here?

If that is all he is capable of doing I am right "he isn't worth our time".. I don't even need an apology from him, only his word that he will try very hard to keep the rules of the forum. I doubt he read them at all.. If he can't do that he can just leave. No one will put up with someone that gets lost for a way to answer so resorting to name calling as his last hope to "win" an argument.. There have been many a time we has disagreed here Julie, but never once have you resorted to calling me a liar.. The poster in question here did so in his first week, AFTER by signing into the forum agreeing to follow the forum rules.. He need to read the rules this time before he treats WM like he is posting in the Salt Lake Tribune.. That kind of talk is allowed there, it isn't here, and you know it.. IHS jim

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Lest they understand with their heart and I should heal them.....

Merry Christmas Apologette. May the season bring you much happiness.

And may we see each other as both loved children of God.

I would hope that one day you really understand what the Incarnation, Christmas, means.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I was wrong in not wanting to WASTE TIME WITH SOMEONE WHO

1. Will not engage in conversation.
2. Calls every answer wrong though it came directly from Brigham Young's comments on the necessity to live the Law of celestial marriage.
3. Doesn't address any question directed at him.
4. Uses personal attacks to fend off the question about polygamy.. The Guy flat called me a liar.. When was the last time you saw me do that to anyone here?

If that is all he is capable of doing I am right "he isn't worth our time".. I don't even need an apology from him, only his word that he will try very hard to keep the rules of the forum. I doubt he read them at all.. If he can't do that he can just leave. No one will put up with someone that gets lost for a way to answer so resorting to name calling as his last hope to "win" an argument.. There have been many a time we has disagreed here Julie, but never once have you resorted to calling me a liar.. The poster in question here did so in his first week, AFTER by signing into the forum agreeing to follow the forum rules.. He need to read the rules this time before he treats WM like he is posting in the Salt Lake Tribune.. That kind of talk is allowed there, it isn't here, and you know it.. IHS jim

No you were quite right. The Lord cautioned against wasting time on those with hardened hearts, closed eyes and ears, and who only mock the Christian faith.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

No you were quite right. The Lord cautioned against wasting time on those with hardened hearts, closed eyes and ears, and who only mock the Christian faith.

This whole site is designed, by those who call themselves Christians, to mock other faiths who often believe in Christ---but not exactly as you do. So, you come here to mock others and then you see those you mock as heart-hearted and mocking you when they defend their faith?

[James Banta]

[BigJulie;151088]Oh, okay. But don't you see me as "darkness" then? Why are you talking to me?

No we (I) don't see you as darkness.. Yes we (I) see you as foreigner. A person that belongs to another Christ, as she follows a different gospel. I see you as being held captive by the darkness, but I don't see you as being part of the darkness. I see a lot of good in you.. I understand that you believe that the Jesus of mormonism is the same Jesus that we find in the New Testament, and I see you trying to follow that being.. You are Honest in your beliefs many of which are not shared by most LDS people..

By the way, I perceive you as someone who trods on our pearls---but we barely even talk about what is precious to you. It appears this site is mostly to "trod" on the beliefs of Mormons and others you disagree with.

Isn't what you hold most sacred the person of the Lord Jesus? Aren't those things he asks us to believe your pearls? If you have others teaching that you count as your pearls wouldn't you want to know they were false if indeed they are.. Julie, I have seen posters like sir count the doctrine of salvation by grace trough faith in Jesus as total nonsense, but right there in Ephesians 2 verses 8-9 God teaches us just that.. It even goes so far as saying that salvation is NOT BY WORKS.. That is not just our pearl, it should be yours as well because it so clearly teaches that salvation is by grace and not works..

Jesus also said that same thing in teaching Nicodemus He said "Whosoever believes is Him (Jesus) will not perish but have Everlasting Life". He didn't include a list of do's and don'ts. No Laws, no ordinances just to believe.. This we teach, this is an important pearl to Christians and many of the LDS call it ridiculous. They always turn to Jesus demands of the rich young ruler and so that obedience to law is a requirement added to faith.. They turn to James who teaches the law of liberty and demand that the works he teaches is obedience to law and ordinances when no such thing is ever taught there by Him. Remember it was James that was the voice of reason to those that demanded that the new gentile believers be circumcised and taught the Law. Remember what He said? That they abstain from eating meat sacrificed to idols and from sexual immorality.. That was it! But when I teach that here I am ridiculous, and to Erundur I am a liar.. And you see us as trodding on your pearls even as we show through LDS sources that they have problems..

As an example I have compared the first vision stories. The official PofGP story from JSH to a letter written in Smith's own handwriting. And the differences were overwhelming.. And I have asked, If the Father and the Son had appeared to you would you have ignored the presence of the Father as Smith did in his handwritten report of the experience. There he says "while in (the) at***ude of calling upon the Lord (in the 16th year of my age) a piller of fire light above the brightness of the sun at noon day come down from above and rested upon me and I was filled with the spirit of G-d and the (Lord) opened the heavens upon me and I saw the Lord and he spake unto me saying Joseph (my son) thy sins are forgiven thee. go thy (way) walk in my statutes and keep my commandments behold I am the Lord of glory I was crucifyed for the world that all those who believe on my name may have Eternal life" (for a full copy of this testimony see http://familybible.org/beit_midrash/...irstVision.htm).. Do I use the word "liar" ascribing it to anyone that reject this document and accepting the official version instead? Nope, and I shouldn't have to deal with people here that use such language because they disagree with me.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

You are Honest in your beliefs many of which are not shared by most LDS people..

Actually, my beliefs are shared by most LDS people. Too bad you don't see that.

Isn't what you hold most sacred the person of the Lord Jesus? Aren't those things he asks us to believe your pearls?

That is exactly what I believe you trod on. While you see yourself criticizing Joseph Smith, I see you attempting to destroy the gospel of Jesus Christ.

If you have others teaching that you count as your pearls wouldn't you want to know they were false if indeed they are.. Julie,

Yes, I would want to know--which is why I have studied it out and asked God to answer. He has.

Jesus also said that same thing in teaching Nicodemus He said "Whosoever believes is Him (Jesus) will not perish but have Everlasting Life". He didn't include a list of do's and don'ts. No Laws, no ordinances just to believe..

Actually, God has given dos and don'ts from the beginning. Do have faith in God. Do love others. Do unto others as you would have them do...

Don't commit murder, adultery, steal, etc. I am not sure what Jesus you believe in if you believe in Him, then you should also believe in His teachings.

Believing in Christ is to believe what he teaches.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

This whole site is designed, by those who call themselves Christians, to mock other faiths who often believe in Christ---but not exactly as you do. So, you come here to mock others and then you see those you mock as heart-hearted and mocking you when they defend their faith?

Come now Julie, you know that posters like sir and jeff hold the BIBLE up as being a joke every time a Christian here makes a Biblical point that leave them no escape from the real truth God has preserved for us.. I have already shown you how this is happening in an earlier post.. Read my main response there.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

[BigJulie;151104]Actually, my beliefs are shared by most LDS people. Too bad you don't see that.

I guess I could be wrong but I thought you told me that you believe that God has been God from everlasting to everlasting.. Not became a God but always was God? I am sorry if I branded you as a Bible believer..

That is exactly what I believe you trod on. While you see yourself criticizing Joseph Smith, I see you attempting to destroy the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Not even close, Yes I come down on Smith when He teaches contrary to biblical doctrines so clearly spelled out by God in His word.. Even the fact that he called himself a prophet is an attack on the Bible..

Hebrews 1:1-2
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

We don't need a prophet as in days of old.. Jesus is speaking to us directly in these last days.. All the christian save one on WM I have never met nor spoken to. Still we all share the same essential doctrines.. Such as who God is, what His nature is. What He did for us, how we become His children unto salvation and how He works within us in the *** of sanctification.. The difference between Christians and the LDS is we believe the Bible just as it is to taught to us, that is just what it says.. The Christian interpretation is the literal meaning of each and every word.. So a people who are not of this fold are those not of Israel.. Gentiles.. Not some other children of Israel that escaped Jerusalem before the Babylonian conquest of the land..

Yes, I would want to know--which is why I have studied it out and asked God to answer. He has.

That can be a problem IF you don't listen to what God has already said about your question.. Jesus said That His word would never p*** away, The LDS have taught that it did. Jesus taught that we should go and teach all nations and that He would always be with us even to the end of the world. The LDS teach that He withdrew His Spirit and a great apostasy destroyed the Church.. Just those two inconsistencies should show that mormonism believe Jesus isn't God and CAN'T preserve His word, and that He hasn't the power to defend His Church against ALL attacks.. Attacks from without and attacks from within.. If Jesus promises are true then there was no total apostasy, no lose of the meaning of His word. The Church still exists even after these last 2,000 years, and His word in dependable.. I trust Him, it would seem that the LDS do not..

Actually, God has given dos and don'ts from the beginning. Do have faith in God. Do love others. Do unto others as you would have them do...
Don't commit murder, adultery, steal, etc. I am not sure what Jesus you believe in if you believe in Him, then you should also believe in His teachings.

Yes God has given us do's and don'ts. It is called the law..

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The Law has one purpose then. Since we can't be justified through obedience to the Law it's function is to bring us to Jesus and by God's grace though faith in the Lord Jesus we can be made righteous unto salvation.. According to His teaching we are all sinners.. All murderers, all adulterers, and thieves, all selfish, all cruel, and all haters of God.. Read the sermon on the mount and see where we fail time and again.. Remember this "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." Jesus didn't take a word away from the commandments.. He just showed us what it really means to be a murderer.. He showed us that sin is a matter of the heart not of our actions.. The sin is already committed once the flesh yields to the evil of our hearts.. We all sin, we all have yielded to our evil hearts. Only in Faith does God step in and give us His righteousness as He takes our sin to place it on Jesus..

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

IHS jim

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by James Banta

1. Will not engage in conversation.

Bring on the conversation, James, but leave out the rabbit trails, evasion, false accusations, and personal insults.

2. Calls every answer wrong though it came directly from Brigham Young's comments on the necessity to live the Law of celestial marriage.

You can't point to a single answer from Brigham Young that I said was wrong.

3. Doesn't address any question directed at him.

You realize how easy it would be to prove this statement false, don't you?

4. Uses personal attacks to fend off the question about polygamy..

Perhaps you need to review that thread again. The personal attacks came from you.

The Guy flat called me a liar..

Actually, I said you were lying--and it turns out you were! One thing you'll quickly learn about me is that I'm not afraid to point out when an anti-Mormon is lying.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I guess I could be wrong but I thought you told me that you believe that God has been God from everlasting to everlasting.. Not became a God but always was God? I am sorry if I branded you as a Bible believer..

Yes, you are wrong and I have showed you our scriptures that say as much.

Hebrews 1:1-2
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

And then proceeded to give Peter a revelation (after the death of Christ) concerning what he wanted with His church. But we have talked about this too.

That can be a problem IF you don't listen to what God has already said about your question..

But I have. What I have learned is that when God does the teaching, we understand the scriptures---he opens them to us and our hearts burn within us as He does (see my scripture in my signature below.) That is my experience. That is truth. As I noted, the Pharisees also studied the scriptures daily---but they missed God as well because they THOUGHT they understood them. To really understand, one must have the double witness of the scriptures AND the spirit. But we have already discussed this as well.

Yes God has given us do's and don'ts. It is called the law..

Yes, we have the law (justice) and the atonement--because God knows we will make mistakes. That in no way means we can ignore the law (which also includes the atonement).

All murderers, all adulterers, and thieves, all selfish, all cruel, and all haters of God..

:Yes, I know you read it this way to justify your own sin. We have already discussed this as well. I see it simply---all sin will keep us from God---but God does acknowledge some sin as worse then others otherwise there would be no reason to make the comment regarding "greater ****ation" nor this comment:

"It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Come now Julie, you know that posters like sir and jeff hold the BIBLE up as being a joke every time a Christian here makes a Biblical point that leave them no escape from the real truth God has preserved for us.. I have already shown you how this is happening in an earlier post.. Read my main response there.. IHS jim

Nope, we use the Bible to teach you as well. I do not hold it up as a joke---just as I used scriptures above to show you why I believe what I do. I also give you scriptures that leave you no escape. You seem to want to ignore them. I just see them in the bigger picture and as applied to real life. But, it is you who are doing the attacking--it is this site that mocks the faith of others...don't ever forget that.

I have never said that God does not see all sin as bad and that all of us need the atonement and repentance---but rather that I at least acknowledge that He recognizes some sins cause more damage, scarring, and pain than others.

You seem to want to acknowledge the one and ignore the other.

Do you likewise see yourself as someone who molests a child---do you put yourself in that boat as well--that your sin is the same as that in the eyes of God? Is this how God sees ALL of your sins?

"It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." (This was Christ speaking, wasn't it?)

[James Banta]

[BigJulie;151110]Nope, we use the Bible to teach you as well. I do not hold it up as a joke---just as I used scriptures above to show you why I believe what I do. I also give you scriptures that leave you no escape. You seem to want to ignore them. I just see them in the bigger picture and as applied to real life. But, it is you who are doing the attacking--it is this site that mocks the faith of others...don't ever forget that.

This is such a hypocritical statement.. You have added attacking other churches to your man invented scripture.. In JHS, LDS believe the new expanded version of the first vision, (Has to be man invented embellishments, because they aren't in the version Smith produced in his own handwriting) That Jesus is quoted saying that all other churches are wrong..That all our creeds are an abomination in God's sight. That our teachers are all corrupt. That we teach as God's truth, the commandments of men.. Yet we teach Jesus to be our Lord and our God, Is that wrong? We teach that through faith in Him a person cab claim salvation though His grace. You mat not agree with that but there is no doubt that it is Biblical..

Yes we HARP on LDS error here.. But we don't make mormon criticism part of our God given scripture the way mormonism does to all the other churches.. Not even in the Book of Mormon is it taught that others, not a part of the LDS secret combinations, that profess Jesus as their Lord and Savior are part of some Great and abominable church of the devil, but that is just what the LDS church teaches. Saying that This Church (the LDS church) is 'the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth' (D. & C. 1:30), the only organization authorized by the Almighty to preach his gospel and administer the ordinances of salvation, the only Church which has power to save and exalt men in the hereafter.... There is no salvation outside this one true church, the Church of Jesus Christ." (Mormon Doctrine, 1979, pages 136).

I have never said that God does not see all sin as bad and that all of us need the atonement and repentance---but rather that I at least acknowledge that He recognizes some sins cause more damage, scarring, and pain than others.

You have not shown me Biblically where any one sin is more serious than another.. I have your judgments but that is all.. Where I have shown you Biblically both in the Old and New Testaments that all sin is just that SIN.. And that sin is only against God and not against others.. Can you show Biblically where that is wrong? This is one of those doctrines that all you can do is disagree with God.. Your opinion hasn't nearly the authority that the Word of God does in the revelation of truth.. All your "But it hurts others" doesn't measure up to the authority of God's word..

You seem to want to acknowledge the one and ignore the other.

I am not seeing this in the Bible's teaching.. It is one way, God's way.. It doesn't really matter what men or Julie have to say about it..

Do you likewise see yourself as someone who molests a child---do you put yourself in that boat as well--that your sin is the same as that in the eyes of God? Is this how God sees ALL of your sins?

Am I just as guilty of breaking the whole of God's law as they? YES! That is what the Bible teaches.. You don't have to preform all sin to be guilty before God of all. One sin ANY SIN makes us that guilty. This is what I believe in the matter of the seriousness of sin.. All sin is rebellion against God. If a person sins, and all have sinned, we must die.. Both Physically and spiritually.. That is serious!!! Again through James the Holy Spirit teaches that if we keep the whole Law and offend in only one point we are guilty of all.. And as he revealed though the Apostle John disbelief, faithlessness, and lying are grouped together with murder, adultery, and sorcery are all equal, Just where do you get authority to change that in the sight of God?

"It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." (This was Christ speaking, wasn't it?)

So if that is true and I believe it is, what does that tell you about the condition of an unconfessed liar? Because of what God has revealed to us by the Holy Spirit to James, John, and David, It would be better for all sinners not just the offenders of children (Who believe in Jesus) if a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea.. God's judgment is serious business. Putting one sin over any other is a denial of God's word.. So use the Bible to teach me.. I beg for that.. But don't dismiss any of it.. Make it all to be God's truth instead of coming to me with a half truth based on one p***age while you deny the others.. As you can see by quoting Mark 9:42 you even gave a half truth in your quotation.. You neglected to add the "Who believe in Me" in your quote.. Can you make your half a doctrine work with James 2:10 and Rev 21:8 as I made Mark 9:42 work in harmony with the other p***ages? I doubt it.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

[[QUOTE=James Banta;151112]This is such a hypocritical statement.. You have added attacking other churches to your man invented scripture..[QUOTE]

So you excuse yourself to attack my beliefs on this site because Joseph Smith had it revealed to him that God told him that the churches of the day spoke of Him with their lips but were far from him in their hearts?

You have not shown me Biblically where any one sin is more serious than another..

Well, I thought the one I gave you about greater ****ation was a good one as well as what Christ said about who offends a little one....and as I stated, I know that all sin removes us from God, but clearly, he sees that some cause more hurt---just as we see and punishes accordingly.

Can you show Biblically where that is wrong?

Already have.

This is one of those doctrines that all you can do is disagree with God.. Your opinion hasn't nearly the authority that the Word of God does in the revelation of truth.. All your "But it hurts others" doesn't measure up to the authority of God's word..

Oh, trust me, I do not disagree with God at all. Once again--you and I read this differently--and you never acknowledge the scriptures I give, but I acknowledge yours.

I am not seeing this in the Bible's teaching.. It is one way God's way.. It doesn't really matter what men or Julie have to say about it..

Then why ignore God's way of seeing it?

This is what I believe in the matter of the seriousness of sin.. All sin is rebellion against God. If a person sins, and all have sinned, we must die.. Both Physically and spiritually..

Yup, completely agree.

Again through James the Holy Spirit teaches that if we keep the whole Law and offend in only one point we are guilty of all..

Yes, I agree--we have covered this. Any sin removes us from God. I have acknowledged that.

So if that is true and I believe it is, what does that tell you about the condition of an unconfessed liar?

We are not speaking of confession or not confession---we are speaking of how God sees sin.

To me, he recognizes that all removes us from God. I also recognize that God recognizes that some are more hurtful to others.

Because of what God has revealed to us by the Holy Spirit to James, John, and David, It would be better for all sinners not just the offenders of children if a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea..

And THIS is exactly my point James. Do you see that in order to understand this verse---YOU just changed it!!!!

As you can see by quoting Mark 9:42 you even gave a half truth in your quotation.. You neglected to add the "Who believe in Me"

Maybe because I just pulled it from Matthew, not Mark---but now that you mention it---

In Mark, Christ basically says---if you believe in me and offend a little child, it is better for a milstone to be put around your neck and you were flung into the sea.

That statement just disqualifies in a nutshell that whole speech you made about just believing in Christ and it is not about the dos and don'ts. Wow---Christ just said--IF YOU BELIEVE IN ME AND DO THIS, YOU ARE BETTER OFF IN THE DEPTHS OF THE SEA!!!!

Hence, if you say you believe and do such a thing--watch out!

In other words, as I have contended all along, you are teaching false doctrine that is not congruent with what the Bible teaches.