[QUOTE=Columcille;151304]First of all, the bowing to dignitaries is not worship. If I genuflect to show respect to the monarchy of England, it is no more worship as it was to do similar forms of expression to King David

Let's see now. . .do you kneel down, bow your head, cross yourself, close your eyes, clasp your hands and repeat PRAYERS to said monarchy of England? I dare say you would NOT!

Each individual act may be done in other circumstances, but you cannot deny that the combination is WORSHIP. Do you do MORE than that when you worship during the m***? Not counting the time your priest acts as a magician and magically 'transforms the toast' of course. . .

Distinguishing between divine worship and respect to others is a matter of degrees of authority.

What authority does your cult have to tell you to pray to non-gods?

All prayer that is answered is of God, not of Mary or any other saint.

So when you pray to mary asking her to pray for you, you don't expect mary to pray for you? I see. . .

A Catholic who attributes answered prayer to Mary is simply wrong. Now, God answers prayers and he listens to pe***ions of others. So a Catholic may attribute the intercession of a saint as to be a partial factor in God answering prayer.

Then why in scripture did nobody pray to John the Baptist after he was beheaded? Why in the first century did nobody write that they prayed to ANYONE other than to God Himself? Your cult is demonic, getting you to pray to non-gods such as peter, paul, mary, baal, or donald duck. And all prayers to ANY of them are of equal value. . .HERESY.

Secondly, the word "pray" is not necessarily an act solely attributed to God alone. The word in Elizabethan English is "to ask" as perhaps a play by Shakespeare might say "I pray thee to do such and such." Certainly you would not say of Elizabethan English usage that people were worshiping others in the mere asking or pe***ioning of a duty.

Privvy, hath thou bespoken Elizabethan English thye whol lyfe?

HOGWASH! NOBODY speaks that way today. Your strawman argument is stupid beyond belief, imho!
So what you are observing and what you are attributing are two separate things.

No they aren't. BOTH are deeply devotional acts of religious worship. They are exactly the same things you do when you attend your m***. And you likely consider your attendance at m*** to be 'worship,' as you do EXACTLY THE SAME KIND OF THING.

Do Catholic genuflect toward the mention of Mary? Yes, I see it happen during the Nicene Creed when it mentions Jesus being born of a Virgin.

I don't care if you see your fellow catholics standing on their heads at the mention of mary or the creeds.

Does that mean that Mary is a 4th person of the Trinity to be given divine worship? No. But what you suggest is that all forms of worship is divine worship;

Jesus said it rightly to satan:
Matt 4:10
10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.'"
NKJV



if I praise my son for a good ***, do I worship my son? If I bow to a king, does that mean I worship that king?

Nope, but if you you kneel down, bow your head, cross yourself, close your eyes, clasp your hands and repeat PRAYERS to them you are worshiping them. WOULD YOU REALLY DO ALL OF THAT TO THEM?

If I were hungry and pleading with another for food clasping my hands in begging, does that mean I worship the person I am asking food from?

Nope, but if you you kneel down, bow your head, cross yourself, close your eyes, clasp your hands and repeat PRAYERS to them you are worshiping him too. WOULD YOU REALLY DO ALL OF THAT TO HIM?

The thing that really separates divine worship from giving another praise or from physical acts of respect is that God as the supreme authority is that God is given his rightful due.

So if you kneel down, bow your head, cross yourself, close your eyes, clasp your hands and repeat PRAYERS to them you are worshiping someone, but say "Praise God! at the end, that's okay? PURE NONSENSE!

You've been conned by your cult!

in Jesus,
fish