Mormonism is claiming they have set aside their Bigotry

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

There is one God and he is God over everything. Now are you going to answer my question?

1 Chronicles 1626 For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the Lord made the heavens.

Are the "gods" in this verse real gods? I mean it says "gods" right therefore you think that these are real gods just like God.

I have always thought your idea of a "real" God is interesting. I think the term would be "true" God. In this verse it says "gods of the people"---which qualifies it. And because it does, when David or Moses call God, "God of gods"---do you think that they were saying, that God is God of idols?---as that seems to be how you interpret the word "gods" in every instance-- gods=idols, every time. I have heard other posters claim that "gods" can mean rulers or magistrates that God appointed.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Here is the KJV of it..
1Ch 16:25 For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised: he also is to be feared above all gods.
1Ch 16:26 For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.

So, you believe when he is called "God of gods"--that He is God over all the idols?--or at least that is what David and Moses are saying?

I have never watched American Idol, so I have no idea how David or Moses felt!

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I have always thought your idea of a "real" God is interesting. I think the term would be "true" God. In this verse it says "gods of the people"---which qualifies it.

1 Chronicles 16:26 For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the Lord made the heavens.

So are you saying that the "gods" in this verse are real gods?

Where in this verse does it say "gods of the people"?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I have always thought your idea of a "real" God is interesting.

Can you expand on this a little bit more for me.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

1 Chronicles 16:26 For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the Lord made the heavens.

So are you saying that the "gods" in this verse are real gods?

Where in this verse does it say "gods of the people"?

Here is the KJV of it..
1Ch 16:25 For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised: he also is to be feared above all gods.
1Ch 16:26 For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Can you expand on this a little bit more for me.

Well, in the Bible, the Hebrew word is elohim (but we have discussed this already)---which literally translates to "gods" and is used in many ways in the Bible. Elohim is used to denote God or idols or rulers and magistrates...but every time, the word is "elohim"---so the reader must decide based on content what "elohim" is referring to.

So, you use the term "real" God---, but I think of God more of the "true" God---as all others fall short. To me the opposite of false (as in false gods) is true. But you seem to take false to mean fake and therefore, the opposite is real. Yet, then are rulers who God appointed and called "gods' fake gods?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Well, in the Bible, the Hebrew word is elohim (but we have discussed this already)---which literally translates to "gods" and is used in many ways in the Bible. Elohim is used to denote God or idols or rulers and magistrates...but every time, the word is "elohim"---so the reader must decide based on content what "elohim" is referring to.

So, you use the term "real" God---, but I think of God more of the "true" God---as all others fall short. To me the opposite of false (as in false gods) is true. But you seem to take false to mean fake and therefore, the opposite is real. Yet, then are rulers who God appointed and called "gods' fake gods?

But if there is only ONE God then everything else is by definition not a "real" god--it is either an idol or a man who is given the ***le of god etc.

So tell me do the Jews believe that there are many gods or just ONE God?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Here is the KJV of it..
1Ch 16:25 For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised: he also is to be feared above all gods.
1Ch 16:26 For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.

And you think that the "gods" noted in verse 25 is different than that used in verse 26?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

But if there is only ONE God then everything else is by definition not a "real" god--it is either an idol or a man who is given the ***le of god etc.

So tell me do the Jews believe that there are many gods or just ONE God?

Jhn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

So, by your definition, Christ then misspoke, right?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Jhn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

So, by your definition, Christ then misspoke, right?

Focus for a minute and answer my question.

So tell me do the Jews believe that there are many gods or just ONE God?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Focus for a minute and answer my question.

So tell me do the Jews believe that there are many gods or just ONE God?

I did. I said: (My exact quote)

One God who is over all gods. At least that is how Moses and David referred to God.

You seem to believe this is an either or statement--either there are many gods OR there is ONE God---yet, Moses and David called God "God of gods" and Jesus Christ stated---which I also quoted: Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Therefore, it leaves me with the question for you which you are not answering. If you believe that there are either many gods or ONE God and that these two things cannot coexist....do you then believe that David and Moses then referred to God as God of idols, as that seems to be your only interpretation for "elohim".




:

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I did. I said: (My exact quote)
One God who is over all gods. At least that is how Moses and David referred to God.:

OK so you believe that the official Jewish position is that they believe in many gods. Fair enough let's see if you are right.

http://www.jewfaq.org/beliefs.htm
"G-d is one and unique"

Looks like you are wrong on this one. Do you want to correct your understanding of Jewish beliefs?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Therefore, it leaves me with the question for you which you are not answering. If you believe that there are either many gods or ONE God and that these two things cannot coexist....do you then believe that David and Moses then referred to God as God of idols, as that seems to be your only interpretation for "elohim".

Actually I answered this for you but I will be happy to answer you again. There is one God and He is God over everything including false gods/idols.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Actually I answered this for you but I will be happy to answer you again. There is one God and He is God over everything including false gods/idols.

And to you, the term "gods" always refers to idols, correct?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

And to you, the term "gods" always refers to idols, correct?

Not always. The term is used for unrighteous judges in Psalm 82. And mormons believe that they are gods in utero and other people who claim they are gods.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Not always. The term is used for unrighteous judges in Psalm 82. And mormons believe that they are gods in utero and other people who claim they are gods.

Not always? Are there those whom God calls gods? And if so, when David or Moses called God, "God of gods"---are they referring to idols and/or those whom God calls gods who are not idols?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Not always? Are there those whom God calls gods? And if so, when David or Moses called God, "God of gods"---are they referring to idols and/or those whom God calls gods who are not idols?

Some are idols as described in Deut and others are men who are referred to as gods such as Psalm 82.

Originally Posted by Billyray

OK so you believe that the official Jewish position is that they believe in many gods. Fair enough let's see if you are right.


http://www.jewfaq.org/beliefs.htm
"G-d is one and unique"

Looks like you are wrong on this one. Do you want to correct your understanding of Jewish beliefs?

Are you going to address this one or not?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Not always? Are there those whom God calls gods? And if so, when David or Moses called God, "God of gods"---are they referring to idols and/or those whom God calls gods who are not idols?

I can only ***ume that you think that they are a god. Tell me more about these gods that you are speaking about. I want to hear more.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Some are idols as described in Deut and others are men who are referred to as gods such as Psalm 82.


Are you going to address this one or not?

Okay, so God is a God of gods whom He appoints and calls gods.

Of course Jews would think God is unique. So much so that when Christ came they could not accept him. But I did not a ask what Jews think today, I asked what Moses and David meant. You are the one who keeps claiming we should be able to read and think for ourselves. So, I am asking you---when Moses call God, God of gods---which "gods" do you think Moses was referring to?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Okay, so God is a God of gods whom He appoints and calls gods.

And tell me exactly who are these gods that you are referring to so that we can further discuss them?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, I am asking you---when Moses call God, God of gods---which "gods" do you think Moses was referring to?

The p***age that you gave me in Deut Moses was speaking about idols.

1Ch 16:25 For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised: he also is to be feared above all gods.
1Ch 16:26 For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.


The reference in the NT that quotes the OT--Psalms 82 is referring to unrighteous judges.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Jhn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

So, by your definition, Christ then misspoke, right?

Not at all--he is quoting Psalm 82 which are unrighteous judges who are called gods.

So tell me more about these "gods" in Psalm 82. I would love to hear more about them.

Psalm 82:1 KJV God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods
Psalm 82:1 NASB God takes His stand in His own congregation;He judges in the midst of the rulers.

Who is "God" in verse 1?

Who are "among the gods" in verse 1?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

The problem is, if a Pharisee used the test that Alan gave, without the guidance of the Holy Ghost (just what they already know and is congruent with what they already believe), he could not believe in Jesus Christ--which is exactly what happened. Therefore, Alan's test does not work.

If you read the NT, the Pharisees believed they were "testing" Christ against the Bible they understood. Because they lacked the real meaning of the teachings and thought they understood the teachings, Christ failed their test and was crucified for it.

So tell me BigJulie, was the mormon holy ghost guiding Joseph Smith jr. When he went about hitting on young girls?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Jhn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

So, by your definition, Christ then misspoke, right?

Mormon Apostle James Talmage said the following in "Jesus the Christ"

". . .Divinely Appointed Judges Called ‘gods.’ In Psalm 82:6, judges invested by divine appointment are called ‘gods.’ To this the Savior referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon’s Porch. Judges so authorized officiated as the representatives of God and are honored by the exalted***le ‘gods."


He was a mormon apostle supposedly inspired by one of your gods so he must be right. Agree BigJ?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Mormon Apostle James Talmage said the following in "Jesus the Christ"

". . .Divinely Appointed Judges Called ‘gods.’ In Psalm 82:6, judges invested by divine appointment are called ‘gods.’ To this the Savior referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon’s Porch. Judges so authorized officiated as the representatives of God and are honored by the exalted***le ‘gods."


He was a mormon apostle supposedly inspired by one of your gods so he must be right. Agree BigJ?

I didn't ask you if by my definition Christ misspoke, but according to your definition of what "gods' mean---but it seems like you have back-peddled from your original stance "gods" means idols.