The "one God"

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

As have been explained already--they are the Gods of the divine council. Deities.

And who are these deities exactly? Are they spirit children of God the Father and his wife?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000
As have been explained already--they are the Gods of the divine council. Deities.

Originally Posted by Billyray

And who are these deities exactly? Are they spirit children of God the Father and his wife?

Whatever one might believe--they are given as Gods--deities. How does that effect your theology?

Can you explain to us how this compares to the Trinitarian theology?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Whatever one might believe--they are given as Gods--deities. How does that effect your theology?

You believe that Psalm 82 is speaking about gods that are distinct from the Godhead. Who are these gods? Are they spirit children of the Father? Are they God the Father's brothers? Are they God the Father's Father?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You believe that Psalm 82 is speaking about gods that are distinct from the Godhead. Who are these gods? Are they spirit children of the Father? Are they God the Father's brothers? Are they God the Father's Father?

I've often wondered where the 3 stooges came from.
Now if anyone doesn't believe me then prove me wrong!

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000
Whatever one might believe--they are given as Gods--deities. How does that effect your theology?

Originally Posted by Billyray

You believe that Psalm 82 is speaking about gods that are distinct from the Godhead. Who are these gods? Are they spirit children of the Father? Are they God the Father's brothers? Are they God the Father's Father?

Again--the Bible does not address that issue, anymore than it addresses who the various Gods are in the OT.

Even the name of Jesus Christ was not revealed in the OT--and the name of God the Father was never revealed in the Bible at all.

But that does not touch the problem of the Trinitarians of the existence of numerous Gods in the divine council.

If there were other Gods, as the Hebrew Bible states--then the Trinity theology falls--period. Names or no names.

If you are interested enough--a study of the Ugarit text reveals some of the names of the Gods. But that's throwing water on a house that is already burned down.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

But that does not touch the problem of the Trinitarians of the existence of numerous Gods in the divine council.

Who are these gods in Psalm 82? Are they the Father's brothers or the Father's uncles who are gods? Enlighten us DB.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---But that does not touch the problem of the Trinitarians of the existence of numerous Gods in the divine council.

Originally Posted by Billyray

Who are these gods in Psalm 82? Are they the Father's brothers or the Father's uncles who are gods? Enlighten us DB.

The text describes the Gods using the same term as the NT does--the sons of God--with the ruler of the divine council being El.

Who they are, by name(even that is given for some) does not touch your problem. They were Gods regardless of their names.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

The text describes the Gods using the same term as the NT does--the sons of God--with the ruler of the divine council being El.

Who they are, by name(even that is given for some) does not touch your problem. They were Gods regardless of their names.

My biggest problem is trying to get you to actually answer my question directly.

Who are these gods in Psalm 82? Are they the Father's brothers or the Father's uncles who are gods? Enlighten us DB.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post----The text describes the Gods using the same term as the NT does--the sons of God--with the ruler of the divine council being El.

Who they are, by name(even that is given for some) does not touch your problem. They were Gods regardless of their names.

Originally Posted by Billyray

My biggest problem is trying to get you to actually answer my question directly.

Who are these gods in Psalm 82? Are they the Father's brothers or the Father's uncles who are gods? Enlighten us DB.

Where does one find brothers or uncles in the text?

They are divine beings that are Gods--His sons and children.

Psalm82:6--"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

The Ugarit text names a few of those Gods--but the damage is already done to the Trinitarian theology. If what we know now is true--then the Trinitarian theology is false. But the LDS theology remains in tact.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

They are divine beings that are Gods--His sons and children.

So the gods of Psalm 82 are spirit children of God the Father such as you and Marvin who are gods?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post--They are divine beings that are Gods--His sons and children.

Originally Posted by Billyray

So the gods of Psalm 82 are spirit children of God the Father such as you and Marvin who are gods?

I have no spirit children, and the Gods of Psalm82 are not mortals. My children are of the flesh. All spirits are Fathered by God the Father.

Psalm82 refers to the Gods that are the spirit children of the Father--heavenly divine beings--the sons of God.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

I have no spirit children, and the Gods of Psalm82 are not mortals. My children are of the flesh. All spirits are Fathered by God the Father.

Did I ever say you have spirit children?

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Psalm82 refers to the Gods that are the spirit children of the Father--heavenly divine beings--the sons of God.

So the gods of Psalm 82 are spirit children of God the Father such as you and Marvin who are gods?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
So the gods of Psalm 82 are spirit children of God the Father such as you and Marvin who are gods?

dberrie---I have no spirit children, and the Gods of Psalm82 are not mortals. My children are of the flesh. All spirits are Fathered by God the Father.

Psalm82 refers to the Gods that are the spirit children of the Father--heavenly divine beings--the sons of God.

Originally Posted by Billyray

Did I ever say you have spirit children? So the gods of Psalm 82 are spirit children of God the Father such as you and Marvin who are gods?

No. Neither Marvin nor I are heavenly beings. The Gods of Psalm82 are heavenly beings, not mortals such as Marvin and I are. Yes, we are spirit children just as those of Psalm82 are.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

No. Neither Marvin nor I are heavenly beings. The Gods of Psalm82 are heavenly beings, not mortals such as Marvin and I are.

But you and Marvin are spirit children of the Father and you say that spirit children of the Father are the gods of Psalm 82. You and Marvin could have been some of those gods in Psalm 82 prior to your birth. Right?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---No. Neither Marvin nor I are heavenly beings. The Gods of Psalm82 are heavenly beings, not mortals such as Marvin and I are.

Originally Posted by Billyray

But you and Marvin are spirit children of the Father

Of the Father? But that is what the Bible teaches--you have stated it was the Son who created the spirits--did you not?

and you say that spirit children of the Father are the gods of Psalm 82.

That's the language of the text--children--sons of God. If that is true--then could the ECF have been right? :

Irenaeus--Against Heresies--Book 5, preface


For it is thus that you will both controvert them in a legitimate manner, and will be prepared to receive the proofs brought forward against them, casting away their doctrines as filth by means of the celestial faith; but following the only true and steadfast Teacher, the Word of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, who did, through His transcendent love, become what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Billyray

But you and Marvin are spirit children of the Father and you say that spirit children of the Father are the gods of Psalm 82. You and Marvin could have been some of those gods in Psalm 82 prior to your birth. Right?

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

That's the language of the text--children--sons of God.

So you and Marvin could have been the gods that were spoken about in Pslm 82. Correct?

[dberrie2000]

Billyray---and you say that spirit children of the Father are the gods of Psalm 82.

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---That's the language of the text--children--sons of God.

Originally Posted by Billyray

So you and Marvin could have been the gods that were spoken about in Pslm 82. Correct?

Regardless of who you believe might have been there, the divine council consisted of a number of Gods, who were referred to as the sons of God.

Again--down comes the pillars of the Trinitarian theology, if that is true, dberrie and Marvin be whatever they are, were--or ever will be.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Regardless of who you believe might have been there, the divine council consisted of a number of Gods, who were referred to as the sons of God.

But you didn't answer my question.

So you and Marvin could have been the gods that were spoken about in Pslm 82. Correct?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Could anyone explain why Paul and the Biblical text .....

I can tell you where things appear in the text and what they mean.
But there are many more things that we can ask questions about that are not found in the text.....

Its like the question that people always ask, "Where did CAIN get his wife from?"
We can guess an answer, but thats all, the truth is that the answer does not appear in the text, and therefore any answer i come up with as to "why is it not found in the text?" is just a guess....

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

I have no spirit children, and the Gods of Psalm82 are not mortals. My children are of the flesh. All spirits are Fathered by God the Father.

Psalm82 refers to the Gods that are the spirit children of the Father--heavenly divine beings--the sons of God.

Just what kinds of gods die like men? Even Jesus didn't die like men die.. He had the power to lay down His life and take it up again (John 10:18).. Yet in Psalm 82 these elohim die like men not like gods.. Sorry but you and your pal Heiser missed that point.. Or more likely ignore it so as to be able to put your pet doctrine forward. IHS jim

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray"one" is not a ***le I could have just as easily said a single God in three persons.

There is no such phrase as the "single God" in the Bible NT, that I am aware of.

But the phrase "one God" is found in the NT:

1 Cor8:6--"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

If one were to notice--Paul separates out God the Father as the "one God"--and separates out Jesus Christ as the "one Lord"--even though they are both referenced in the same sentence.

Could anyone explain why Paul and the Biblical text never combines Jesus and God the Father into the same "one God" phrase, even though this phrase is used more than once in the NT, with both Christ and God the Father mentioned within the same few verses?

Bump for anyone

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray"one" is not a ***le I could have just as easily said a single God in three persons.

There is no such phrase as the "single God" in the Bible NT, that I am aware of.

But the phrase "one God" is found in the NT:

1 Cor8:6--"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

If one were to notice--Paul separates out God the Father as the "one God"--and separates out Jesus Christ as the "one Lord"--even though they are both referenced in the same sentence.

Could anyone explain why Paul and the Biblical text never combines Jesus and God the Father into the same "one God" phrase, even though this phrase is used more than once in the NT, with both Christ and God the Father mentioned within the same few verses?

Bump for anyone