Are there any Christians outside the Mormon church?

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by theway

LOL.... What other people???

I agree with Erundur, I never read your posts if they are more than one short paragraph long even if they include scripture.
I just ***ume you are spouting the same AntiMormon talking points I've heard and debunked a hundred times before.
We know your questions are not "questions" but attempts to trap us. That will never work however, because we know the answers to your questions, we know all the traps, we know the quotes you will use before you do, we know the AntiMormon sites you get your information from, we know the answers to any comeback, scriptures or quotes you will post, we also know how you will misinterpret those scriptures, WE ARE ALWAYS THREE OR FOUR STEPS AHEAD OF YOU!
So if we ask a question it is not because we think there is anything you can teach us, it is so that by you answering, You and any Lurkers who might happen by can see why your argument is flawed. This is why we know you know better than to answer any of our questions with anything more than pla***udes and scriptures which have nothing to do with the topic at hand... It is because if you answer you will have it on record as contradicting yourself, and be faced with the truth that contradicts your own beliefs.

So I'll ask the same question I ask most AntiMormons here... Just who are you trying to convince anyway?

It certainly can not be us because we know better, or the one or two Lurkers who are laughing at your silly attempts to discredit the LDS... It must be that you are trying to convince yourself.

No, I can't convince a single person, but God can. Who are you trying to convince? You seem so angry.

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[alanmolstad]

what was the name again of that one person?.....

You know, that one Born-Again, New Testament Christin the Bible tells us that lost their salvation?

[alanmolstad]

Name of the born again Christian that lost salvation?

[alanmolstad]

I am saved...I'm saved forever.
I can not lose my salvation.
A born again christian...

To the people that teach others that guys like me can become lost I only have one question...

Who such as I ever is said to have been lost?...

In other words....nname me one born again Christian that is said to be lost?

[theway]

Originally Posted by Grandma

No, I can't convince a single person, but God can. Who are you trying to convince? You seem so angry.

In Christian Love,

Grandma

Oh I am not angry; nothing on these sites can possibly get me angry, embarr***ed, shamed, or hurt.
I would have to respect your opinion for that to happen.

As I have stated over and over... I am here for the entertainment value only! I am not here to convince people or be convinced by someone.
As soon as this site becomes boring again, I will leave. But so far this site has provided lots of laughs and brings a smile to my face each morning.... So I guess your presence here is of some value after all.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Grandma

No, I can't convince a single person, but God can.

Wait a minute... Now you are not making any sense based on your past comments.
If God prechooses us without any say so on our part, forces Faith on us, and saves us against our will....


Then why does He have to convince us of anything??? What would be the point, as it will not matter whether we are convinced or not, based on your heretical theories of the Gospel?

[theway]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I am saved...I'm saved forever.
I can not lose my salvation.
A born again christian...

To the people that teach others that guys like me can become lost I only have one question...

Who such as I ever is said to have been lost?...

In other words....nname me one born again Christian that is said to be lost?

In other words you are saying... "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you are saved"
Such is the doctrine of Devils.
I asked before, I'll ask again, please explain the parable of the Ten Virgins to us?

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by childofgod

Just like saying "I'm saved" doesn't mean you're 100% guaranteed to get to heaven. The scriptures teach that we can lose our salvation. Once saved always saved is an idea founded in Calvinism, not the Old or New Testaments. Just because someone is a Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, etc doesn't mean the person gets an automatic p*** to heaven. Saying "Lord, Lord, you're my Savior and I'm a sinner" doesn't give you an automatic p*** to heaven. Jesus taught it is those who DO, act, take action, to act accordingly, the will of the Father will enter the kingdom of God.

You're right that claiming to be a Christian doesn't mean the person is really a Christian. I, for example, am a Christian because I follow Jesus Christ (the same one the Bible testifies of) and His gospel.

We can't lose our salvation because Jesus PAID for it.

Saying "I'm saved" is just words. Being saved means you've been born again. It's something God does and no one can undo it. The recipient belongs to Christ because the Father gave him or her to Christ.

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by theway

In other words you are saying... "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you are saved"
Such is the doctrine of Devils.

I asked before, I'll ask again, please explain the parable of the Ten Virgins to us?

Five of the ten virgins were born again. They knew Christ and He knew them.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Grandma

Five of the ten virgins were born again. They knew Christ and He knew them.

Wrong....
A Virgin was used to represent those within the church.
All Ten Virgins were invited to the wedding feast, I.e. "Chosen" in your vernacular.
Entrance into the wedding feast meant the same as entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven.
All had oil, but 5 were prepared with enough, while 5 were not.
They were the ones who had to get the oil on their own.... Nobody just gave it to them, nor could they give it to another, says the Bible.

In other words, God did not let them in simply because they had already been invited, they had to prepare themselves, or be prepared first by obtaining the oil on their own.

[alanmolstad]

So no one can name a single born again christian in the bible that lost their salvation???

Not one name?

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by theway

Wait a minute... Now you are not making any sense based on your past comments.
If God prechooses us without any say so on our part, forces Faith on us, and saves us against our will....

Then why does He have to convince us of anything??? What would be the point, as it will not matter whether we are convinced or not, based on your heretical theories of the Gospel?

I have no heretical theories of the Gospel that Christ brought. God is our Holy Creator. Do you think you should revere Him or accuse Him? Doesn't the potter have the right to make some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? Can one jar go on the counter for compost?

Is your god restricted from changing a person's heart?

Ezekiel 36
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

I praise God for that! Do you think He's being wicked and shoving the new birth on you against your will --- just because a man named Joseph Smith claimed that was Lucifer's plan. I've never met anyone who is angry about being born again.

Jeremiah 18:6
O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

Who are you, a mere human being, to argue with God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, "Why have you made me like this?"

God doesn't drag us kicking and screaming into heaven. He changes our will to doing His will.

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by childofgod

Cool. Be sure to tell the Atheists they're going to Heaven whether they want to or not. God doesn't force anyone into His kingdom. People can walk away from salvation by sinning and refusing to repent.

I have no idea who God is going to save! But there will be no wicked ones in heaven.

Jesus says that the saved are saved. They're no longer lost. They won't follow Satan because they know the voice of the Good Shepherd and they won't follow another voice!

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by childofgod

Please read the scriptures. In the Nee Testament we learn that many will turn away from the truth and become lost. To turn from the truth and become lost means they were once in truth and saved but turned to false doctrines and go from a saved to a fallen state from that of salvation.

Oh, there are people in the pews who can fool us for awhile. Then they walk away from their pretense.

1 John 2:19 NIV
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.


In Christian Love,
Grandma

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by theway

Wrong....
A Virgin was used to represent those within the church.
All Ten Virgins were invited to the wedding feast, I.e. "Chosen" in your vernacular.
Entrance into the wedding feast meant the same as entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven.
All had oil, but 5 were prepared with enough, while 5 were not.
They were the ones who had to get the oil on their own.... Nobody just gave it to them, nor could they give it to another, says the Bible.

In other words, God did not let them in simply because they had already been invited, they had to prepare themselves, or be prepared first by obtaining the oil on their own.

Those virgins missed the boat because they weren't born again.

[alanmolstad]

There is not a single account in the bible of a Born Again believer losing his salvation!

None...not a single name!!!!

not a single Believer in Christ is said to have lost their salvation !


Consider the story of Mark.
Mark left the side of Paul, and this fact upset Paul to no end Im sure...
You see this come out in Paul's at***ude toward mark in later events.

Yet do we consider mark lost and ****ed just for walking away from the side of Paul?....No!

The text is also very clearly showing us via the lifeof Mark that yes, people might walk away from the hardship of ministy during their lives, but they are always part of the Lord's church...
Mark never stopped being saved!
Mark was and is always saved.....always forgiven and redeemed...

as am I.....



But some people still think people can lose their salvation regardless of the lack of support for that idea in the Bible.
To them I guess its like the Boogeyman, or Bigfoot....

Some people will always believe it these things ...they just will never be able to actually point to proof they are real....

[alanmolstad]

I do deny that the Bible teaches that any Born again believe was ever lost....go on,,,try to find where it says they "lost their salvation"....I dare you to seek the text out on that matter.

what you will find is that the Bible not even for a second says that a born again christian lost their salvation!!!!!

Lets now listen to what walter Martin has to say on this topic-



the Martin stuff happens around the 3:01 point of the video...
check it out and then come back to the discussion with any questions you have about what is on the video....

[alanmolstad]

what we find in the Bible is that God is steadfast in his gift of salvation...

but people are still in the flesh, and the flesh is weak, and we dont always do the right thing, nor always act as we should.

In the Bible we read about men that left the ministry....but does the Bible tell us that they were therefore lost?.....NO!

people in Bible times left the ministry when it got too much for them, and the truth is, people to this very day find that the demands of full time ministry are just too much for them to bear...so they drop out.

But they are not kicked out of the church!
they are not then condemned to Hell's fires! and the Bible does not say they become lost!

So I dont really care what name you try to put forward, the truth is the bible does not say they lost their salvation if the person was truly born again....

Thus the idea that a christian can lose their salvation is an idea that is not based on the text, but rather it stems from the minds of men......
Mostly from the minds of men who want or need people to do stuff...
Stuff that ends with putting coin into pockets of the people teaching this error in the first place....





But for the record, the Bible at no place teaches that a Born Again Christian can lose their salvation, because it never happened....nor will it ever happen.



The Bible does say as Walter Martin points out that because of the great depth of some men's sins, God will take their life....but this is a sign of God's mercy too, as it is aimed at protecting the soul of the person.

[Saxon]

what was the name again of that one person?.....

You know, that one Born-Again, New Testament Christin the Bible tells us that lost their salvation?

Demas. He is listed with Luke in a greeting (See Colossians 4:14). He has forsaken Paul, having loved this present world (See 2 Timothy 4:10). He is listed as one of Paul's fellow labourers (See Philemon 1:24). James 4:4 states it clearly that the friendship of the world is enmity with God, and Demas LOVED the world.

Don't tell me that Demas wasn't saved because there is no evidence that he was not. All you have going for you is the circular reasoning of OSAS.

Colossians 4:14 Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.

2 Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, ***us unto Dalmatia

Philemon 1:24 Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas, my fellowlabourers.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

[Saxon]

Circular reasoning with on scriptural support.

[Saxon]

The idea that a christian cannot lose their salvation is an idea that is not based on the text, but rather it stems from the minds of men.

[alanmolstad]

Giving up full time ministry and moving back home is NOT LOSING SALVATION! .....that's just silly....
Ministry work full time is a single man's work...bbut even they sometimes fold their cards.
It does not mean they or you and I are lost....and the bible does Not Say they were lost....

But like bigfoot...some people just will always think weird ideas even if they can't at all back them up!

[Saxon]

How does a person that believes OSAS know if they themselves are saved. You may be the next to walk away from the living God, or your "pretense". (See Hebrews 3:12)

Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

[Saxon]

We can't lose our salvation because Jesus PAID for it

.

How does that prove that you can't lose salvation?

Saying "I'm saved" is just words. Being saved means you've been born again. It's something God does and no one can undo it. The recipient belongs to Christ because the Father gave him or her to Christ.

Where does the Bible say that you can't "undo it"? It isn't Hebrews 3:12.

Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

[Saxon]

Judas. You can't loose what you didn't have. (See John 17:12)

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.