Did Joe Smith ever try to get a sexual 3-way going?

[alanmolstad]

It seems to me that I have read someplace that Smith one time was visiting the home of some people and was able to tak one of the girls who lived there into having sex with him, but then later that evening asked if perhaps her sister would join them?

But Im not sure if he was talking about just bedding-down the other sister alone?,or both sisters at the same time?

anyone have any information on that?

[alanmolstad]

I was doing a bit of reading on the sexul conquests of Smith, and came to this quote that might be connectd to my question about the 3-way...

"Eventually, Smith's sexual excess caught up with him in court. On 23 March 1844, William Law filed suit against Smith for committing adultery with Smith's foster daughter and plural wife:

“William Law file[d] a formal complaint with the Han**** County [Illinois] circuit court charging Smith was living 'in an open state of adultery' with Maria Lawrence, Smith's foster daughter and polygamous wife. Maria Lawrence was a teenaged orphan who was living in the Smith household. In fact, Smith had secretly married both Maria, age 19, and her sister Sarah, age 17, on 11 May 1843 and was serving as executor of their $8,000 estate.

"William Law apparently hoped that disclosing Smith's relationship with the young girls might lead him to abandon polygamy but Smith immediately excommunicated Law, had himself appointed the girls' legal guardian and rejected the charge in front of a church congregation on 26 May 1844, denying that he had more than one wife.”(Joseph Smith, “History of the Church,” vol. 6, p. 403; and Richard S. Van Wagoner, “Mormon Polygamy: A History,” p. 66)



This might fit with another account of Smith asking for a sister to join him and a girl in bed...but right now Im not sure if these were the two girls or were they others?

[alanmolstad]

" Since there is a great deal of evidence that Joseph Smith had sexual relations with his wives, one wonders why he did not have more polygamous children.

However, some of his children apparently grew up under other names, as Mary Lightner suggested. Furthermore, he may not have had numerous posterity because he was not able to visit his wives regularly, both because he was often hiding from the law and because Emma, his first wife, watched him carefully. "

well, poor Emma tried to watch the old hounddog*...But it seems he sneaked out the door a few times...











* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiY5yE3TBgA

[alanmolstad]

I am informed that the correct term is " ménage à trois "

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I was doing a bit of reading on the sexul conquests of Smith

That's a weird obsession you have there.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

That's a weird obsession you have there.

One might say that Smith actually had the "obsession"...

His was an obsession for younger girls.

All that we know of as "Mormonism" stems from Smith's sexual obsession for young girls.
The story of the golden plates, the visits by angels, all of it, the whole totality of Mormon doctrine can be traced back to Smith's obsession to engage in numerous adulterous relationships with young girls.

Smith seems to develop different stories and his many new doctrines as a means to allow him opportunity to bed women.

The idea that by sleeping with him you could prevent people from being harmed, or you could ***ure your family's glory in the afterlife, are just some of the many ideas that Smith dreamed up in order to convince naive girls to pleasure him sexually

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

One might say that Smith actually had the "obsession"...

Given the fact that just this month you have started 21 threads about sex, I think it's safe to say it's you who has the obsession.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

... 21 threads .......

interesting someone would know such a number?
I will take your word for that as I really dont stop to list such things on a chart...LOL

But I will take it as a complement that my posts are so noteworthy that other people are even going so far as keeping such good records of them thusly,

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

One might say that Smith actually had the "obsession"...

His was an obsession for younger girls.

All that we know of as "Mormonism" stems from Smith's sexual obsession for young girls.
The story of the golden plates, the visits by angels, all of it, the whole totality of Mormon doctrine can be traced back to Smith's obsession to engage in numerous adulterous relationships with young girls.

Smith seems to develop different stories and his many new doctrines as a means to allow him opportunity to bed women.

The idea that by sleeping with him you could prevent people from being harmed, or you could ***ure your family's glory in the afterlife, are just some of the many ideas that Smith dreamed up in order to convince naive girls to pleasure him sexually

That makes ZERO sense since the Book of Mormon was translated, and the church was founded before the practice of polygamy. The rest of your conclusions are not based on any fact, they are your opinion and conclusions drawn from unreliable biased anti-Smith sources which got their info from more biased third hand accounts. You really believe this man went through all of this work, published a book of scripture that took him over a year to transcribe, and suffered much persecution, abuse and death...all just to get a little tail for a few years? And then according to this source, he really didn't get any tail? And that the church that was born from that still stands today at over 15 MILLION members??

But that's what you think...it's not fact...you keep wording it like it is fact...its not fact

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

........all just to get a little tail for a few years?.....

unlimited tail.....
Read the link I posted about the sexual conquests the man achieved.
The man seemed to walk around looking for his "next wife" wherever he was at the time...regardless of the age of girls or if they were happily marred or not.

Think of what that was like for him....a man driven by his lust and at the same time knowing that none of the women in his little world were out of reach..

he started believing that any girl he wanted 'had" to submit to him on demand.

Remember the story of that young girl in need who comes to live with them...and very soon he is tapping it?


Smith would show up at a friends house,and if he was in the mood for some hanky-panky he would dream up some reason the daughter or the wife should jump into bed with him.

Or....Smith would tell one of his friends that he needed them to go on a mission to a far off land.
then when he knew the husband was out of town and it was safe, Smith would come sniffing around the wife .....


so its unlimited tail, there for the taking...

The man was simply driven by his lust.



But we should not overlook the fact that Smith saw a chance to earn some coin too.

Remember Smith got the whole "I found a Golden book buried" idea from his days as a conman and when he would fake being able to find hidden treasure.


so yes, Smith did the things he is remembered and so admired for simply because he loved to seduce women, but lets also not forget the man had to eat too !


He had to come up with a way to get money out of people.....and like many leaders of different religions, Smith learned there is a lot of easy money to be earned by pushing a new religion on people....

Smith understood that people love to believe they are getting in on the "ground floor"...and people love to believe that by drawing close to the right people they have an edge over others. (It's not what you know but Who you know)

Smith used to to get people to agree to the most evil things simply by convincing them that if they followed his words they would be blessed in the after life...or get some type of special ranking here on earth.


Remember the story of Smith's wife and how she got so ticked-off at Smith when she caught Smith and that young girl messing around out in the barn?

Smith was able to talk his way out of it by promising his wife some type of new higher ranking if she overlooked his fooling around.

So the wife's morals were seduced by the idea of getting a special higher rank,
and her being told by Smith of how much better things would be later for her due to this higher ranking.


But.....Smith's wife seems to have a change of heart about the true value of these invented higher ranks when the young girl Smith was nailing started to...."show".

[alanmolstad]

Now as for the topic here, and the question if Smith ever tried to get a 3-way going with two girls?....I still have not found the reference I remember reading on the topic last year.

in that reference, Smith was visiting a friends house, and naturally being the type of guy he was, he was able to get one of the girls that lived there to jump into bed with him.

Now at some point in the evening, after a few hours, the girl I think I remember got up and at that point Smith asked if she would go get her sister from the other room and have her join them ?

The first sister refused...but I have always wanted to know what was Smith really trying to pull there?

was he just asking for the girls to in-effect, "tap out" and exchange beds so he could start banging the younger sister now?
or...
was Smith attempting to get both sisters in bed with him at the same time?

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Now as for the topic here, and the question if Smith ever tried to get a 3-way going with two girls?....I still have not found the reference I remember reading on the topic last year.

in that reference, Smith was visiting a friends house, and naturally being the type of guy he was, he was able to get one of the girls that lived there to jump into bed with him.

Now at some point in the evening, after a few hours, the girl I think I remember got up and at that point Smith asked if she would go get her sister from the other room and have her join them ?

The first sister refused...but I have always wanted to know what was Smith really trying to pull there?

was he just asking for the girls to in-effect, "tap out" and exchange beds so he could start banging the younger sister now?
or...
was Smith attempting to get both sisters in bed with him at the same time?

No evidence...no fact...nothing..that Joseph Smith propositioned either of these girls for sex....you have posted a very descriptive story of which there is no evidence of. There is no account that any of this happened, at all, you know that. There only seems to be a story of wishful thinking for whatever purpose, I don't know...but there doesn't seem to be a lick of "missionary work" involved here. Only appears to be more incessant vulgar ramblings.

And again... Breaking the rules

"So he could start banging the younger sister" is not only unscholarly, but extremely vulgar. The whole story is vulgar, especially since it isn't based on any fact. Even the unreliable, unverifiable, biased third party account did not claim these events as you have told it. You have stated that it isn't ridiculing or baiting another's beliefs if it is based on facts....this has absolutely no factual basis.

Baiting.

So two rules, being broken...again...

[alanmolstad]

no...(from what I remember), he was banging the first sister, and later that night asked the older sister if she would go get the younger to have her join them?

That is what I remember reading about.
That is what Im asking about in this topic.
"Did he just want the younger sister alone, or both the sisters at once?"

Its a simple question...



Now Im so sorry if you dont like this question....
Im so sorry that you dont like reading about this topic, but you dont get to write the posts of others...
This is what I want to talk about,this is what I want to learn of to know if its true or not?

why?

I will tell you why-

From my point of view, Joe Smith was a Dirty Old man.....

From my point of view Smith was going around and using his fake authority in a religion that he himself invented in an effort to have sex, (unlimited sex whenever he wanted), with the wives and young daughters of his followers.

From my point of view he is a sexual creep.

That is the stand point of a Christian as we look at the whole Mormon church...
This is not just something " I" (Alan)came up with on my own....this is how Mormonism is looked at as being by the Christian church.

All of Mormonism is the result of a conman's efforts to gain money and sex.

That is all Mormonism is.
The Golden Plates are a invented story, sorta like what Smith used to tell people he could find buried treasure on their land ,if they paid him a fee.
Thats all the Golden Plates are...a coman's story to trick others with.
The idea of taking many so-called "wives" was just something Smith dreamed up on the spot after he got caught sneaking off to the barn with young girls.
The idea of sending men on a "mission" was another idea Smith dreamed up in order to get the husbands out of town.
The Book of Mormon is just a rip-off of other works.
The Mormon temple handshakes and all that important super-serest stuff is just a conman's ideas that he got after he joined the Masons.

This is what I believe.
This is the common Christian understanding that we have of the Mormons.
If you cant handle this, then I suggest you better buckle-up...because Im going to keep writing on Mormonism from this point of view and posting links that provide information that supports this point of view that Smith was aconman who spent a lot of his time bedding-down younger and younger girls....as I have been doing and will continue to do.

You can check-out what Im saying with anything written by Christian writers to see if what Im saying is just my ideas, or are they found elsewhere?
I have providing a linkthat deals with Smith's sexual conquests to see if I have made up anything at all in anything I have said???, ( https://books.google.com/books?id=lR...isters&f=false )

And as far as Smith being a conman?...
You can do a little research to see if Walter Martin taught any differently?


What you will find true is that on the topic of Smith's sexual pursuit of women, all that Alan has posted is found on well known websites.
And all that Alan has posed about Smith's past as a conman is taken from Martin's books and from the Bible Answer man radio shows both past and current.



Back to my topic's point:
Now as I said, I remember reading this account from some site and I have yet to find this same site...
But I do remember reading about this so the site is real...its just that I have failed to find it as of yet......but its still early in this...Im sure it will turn up soon.


my hope is that if I cant find that same sight that over the years someone who visits this forum will see my topic and they will know of the information Im asking about.

And remember, Im asking about this account.....Im asking if the events are true as I remember?



and we shall see if anything turns up.

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

no...(from what I remember), he was banging the first sister, and later that night asked the older sister if she would go get the younger to have her join them?

That is what I remember reading about.
That is what Im asking about in this topic.
"Did he just want the younger sister alone, or both the sisters at once?"

Its a simple question...



Now Im so sorry if you dont like this question....
Im so sorry that you dont like reading about this topic, but you dont get to write the posts of others...
This is what I want to talk about,this is what I want to learn of to know if its true or not?

why?

I will tell you why-

From my point of view, Joe Smith was a Dirty Old man.....

From my point of view Smith was going around and using his fake authority in a religion that he himself invented in an effort to have sex, (unlimited sex whenever he wanted), with the wives and young daughters of his followers.

From my point of view he is a sexual creep.

That is the stand point of a Christian as we look at the whole Mormon church...
This is not just something " I" (Alan)came up with on my own....this is how Mormonism is looked at as being by the Christian church.

All of Mormonism is the result of a conman's efforts to gain money and sex.

That is all Mormonism is.
The Golden Plates are a invented story, sorta like what Smith used to tell people he could find buried treasure on their land ,if they paid him a fee.
Thats all the Golden Plates are...a coman's story to trick others with.
The idea of taking many so-called "wives" was just something Smith dreamed up on the spot after he got caught sneaking off to the barn with young girls.
The idea of sending men on a "mission" was another idea Smith dreamed up in order to get the husbands out of town.
The Book of Mormon is just a rip-off of other works.
The Mormon temple handshakes and all that important super-serest stuff is just a conman's ideas that he got after he joined the Masons.

This is what I believe.
This is the common Christian understanding that we have of the Mormons.
If you cant handle this, then I suggest you better buckle-up...because Im going to keep writing on Mormonism from this point of view and posting links that provide information that supports this point of view that Smith was aconman who spent a lot of his time bedding-down younger and younger girls....as I have been doing and will continue to do.

You can check-out what Im saying with anything written by Christian writers to see if what Im saying is just my ideas, or are they found elsewhere?
I have providing a linkthat deals with Smith's sexual conquests to see if I have made up anything at all in anything I have said???, ( https://books.google.com/books?id=lR...isters&f=false )

And as far as Smith being a conman?...
You can do a little research to see if Walter Martin taught any differently?


What you will find true is that on the topic of Smith's sexual pursuit of women, all that Alan has posted is found on well known websites.
And all that Alan has posed about Smith's past as a conman is taken from Martin's books and from the Bible Answer man radio shows both past and current.



Back to my topic's point:
Now as I said, I remember reading this account from some site and I have yet to find this same site...
But I do remember reading about this so the site is real...its just that I have failed to find it as of yet......but its still early in this...Im sure it will turn up soon.


my hope is that if I cant find that same sight that over the years someone who visits this forum will see my topic and they will know of the information Im asking about.

And remember, Im asking about this account.....Im asking if the events are true as I remember?



and we shall see if anything turns up.

And I will continue to say, just because you find it on the Internet, doesn't mean it's true, I can give much history to say otherwise.

And again....your post is steeped in contempt..you can have any opinion you want, but here, in this forum, when discussing historical figures "this should be done in a scholarly way--no mocking, contempt, etc. If you cannot do this, than do not post."

So as far as Walter Martin and his "ministry", if you can't even be honest about the "rules" you post, why should anybody believe a word that comes out of your mouth, or trust your opinions?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

And I will continue to say, just because you find it on the Internet, doesn't mean it's true,

and......in the same way...

I will continue to say that ,just because I quote something a Mormon might not like to think about, it dont mean its not still very true...




I understand that a Mormon might not like the way Christian goes on-and-on talking about their beloved leader's sex life....but tough darts.

and that reminds me of yet another story....
I will write the story and post it in my next topic.

[alanmolstad]

http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/s...-%28a-story%29

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

and......in the same way...

I will continue to say that ,just because I quote something a Mormon might not like to think about, it dont mean its not still very true...




I understand that a Mormon might not like the way Christian goes on-and-on talking about their beloved leader's sex life....but tough darts.

and that reminds me of yet another story....
I will write the story and post it in my next topic.

Well, I will be sure not to comment on your next topic, because that seems to be the only way anyone seems interested in your threads. I'm not sure if it's because they want to see what I say, or if they want to see you bait me and make fun of my beliefs...not sure, but there are aren't hardly any views until I or another member of the LDS church says something. And since it's all just the same stuff over and over, I can only imagine they find our exchanges to be entertaining in some way. Seems to be quite the opposite of a ministry to me. So I am sure I no longer want any part in this Jerry Springer Show

I'm not afraid of your words, threads, videos, wild stories or opinions. I am, however, afraid I will completely lose the Spirit if I keep coming back here and being part of this. I am absolutely positive God will reveal all things, and when that day comes, I don't want the only thing I have to show Him to be these endless negative ramblings and exchanges. That would be the only thing I would fear, because I know better than to be doing this.

I can only pray for strength that I don't come around and give in to your baiting and end up doing exactly what you want me to. I'm beginning to realize the baiting is probably to get LDS members upset so they will speak out and you will get your views. You will continue to break your own rules and speak in disgusting ways that are completely unbecoming of a Christian site. I believe another rule was no vulgar language...but I suppose that's up for interpretation as well? I wonder if you would talk this way around The Lord?

So until that day, when it will be revealed...I will do my best to focus on actual spiritual growth.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

Well, I will be sure not to comment on your next topic, .

when I write stuff and post it on this site...its for my own enjoyment.
I like to write.
I like to put down in print things I think about or believe.

Many times I will write something that up until that moment I may have always felt in my heart, but had never had found the words to talk about yet.

So in a very real way, there are some topics that I write on that I will come back to and read later and I will be surprised at the depth of my thoughts too.

The story I have just finished posting is like that.
Its a story I remember and always carry with me, but never had a chance to put down in words until now.

And now that I have written it, its part of this whole Christian Church outreach to the CULTS, and will likely be around long after Im gone.


So when I write I dont write with the idea of "Oh I hope someone reads this and responds"...
Rather I write because I find putting my thoughts down in words is very enjoyable....

and its a kick to do so on a site named to honor a great man named Walter Martin.





If down the road someone finds something I have written proves useful?.....thats fine.

[MickeyS]

And before you even attempt it, I will not take the bait from your likely response that I am only conceding because somehow you have presented some sort of undeniable "evidence" of the things you say. because you haven't. Not even close. Actually you haven't provided any evidence at all of these alleged sexual escapades. And repeated vulgar language and contempt doesn't make your "evidence" any more real. You cannot make something real just by wishing it into being. One day you will know just how unreliable your sources truly are. So cast away, I will not be biting.