Mormons, Why Do You Believe Such Junk?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Correct.

All..ALL ALL...and I mean all, your prayers to this false god that a known sexual predator dreamed up in order for him to have access to younger girls, are a moot point.

any "feelings" that you interpreted as a "confirmation" are a moot point.

Any of the reasons you can come up with for remaining within the Mormon church are a moot point.

Yes, and ban all Muslims. Anything else you want to add to the conversation? Maybe Hispanics are rapists (another Trumpism)?

While you may see yourself as being the "god" I should listen to--as I said, no thank you.

[John T]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, and ban all Muslims. Anything else you want to add to the conversation? Maybe Hispanics are rapists (another Trumpism)?

While you may see yourself as being the "god" I should listen to--as I said, no thank you.

Your sputtering anger is noted. However please do not direct it at Alan; for he is merely the messenger, who is repeating what the God of the Bible wrote in the Bible, His Word.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by John T

Your sputtering anger is noted. However please do not direct it at Alan; for he is merely the messenger, who is repeating what the God of the Bible wrote in the Bible, His Word.

There is no anger here--only a deep sigh because Alan has judgement for so many. And Alan is not repeating the God of the Bible because God tells us to pray and have faith in Him.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

or another version:

James 1: 5-6 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, and ban all Muslims. .

???

Ban?...Ban from where?...here?...
We dont ban people from being lost,

and Im not sure how Trump got dragged into this, as I have not said anything about politics..?



But as for Mormons,they are without hope for they worship a god that Smith just invented so that he could have better results chase tail.
Therefor the prayers of a Mormon are a moot point.
The god that Smith invented so he could get into the beds of young girls that trusted him, is not a real god at all, rather its a false god that cant save, nor hear prayers...

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

???

Ban?...Ban from where?...here?...
We dont ban people from being lost,

and Im not sure how Trump got dragged into this, as I have not said anything about politics..?



But as for Mormons,they are without hope for they worship a god that Smith just invented so that he could have better results chase tail.
Therefor the prayers of a Mormon are a moot point.
The god that Smith invented so he could get into the beds of young girls that trusted him, is not a real god at all, rather its a false god that cant save, nor hear prayers...

I am just looking at your view of Mormons in light of your political view.

And you are so hung up on your perceived view of Joseph Smith, I can only conclude some projection.

Interesting to me that you do not believe God hears or answers the prayers of Mormons. *sigh*

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I am just looking at your view of Mormons in light of your political view.

And you are so hung up on your perceived view of Joseph Smith, I can only conclude some projection.

*sigh*

Smith was a sexual predator...if you doubt I can fill-up the next few pages of this topic with information that goes over his vast history in the records of Smith's sniffing around after the young daughters of his followers, or that he would send husbands out of town, then later come "a calling"?.....you just let me know.


I never say anything on this forum unless I can back it up.....



So just let me know.....

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Smith was a sexual predator...if you doubt I can fill-up the next few pages of this topic with information that goes over his vast history in the records of Smith's sniffing around after the young daughters of his followers, or that he would send husbands out of town, then later come "a calling"?.....you just let me know.


I never say anything on this forum unless I can back it up.....



So just let me know.....

Regardless of what you think about Joseph Smith or write about Joseph Smith, this is what I know for sure.

The revelations given to Joseph Smith when lived produce the most righteous, principled, and faithful husbands. My husband was a virgin when we married. My daughter's husband was as well. My son was too.

The gospel of Jesus Christ, as revealed to Joseph Smith, teaches such deep sanc***y of marriage that is so important to God that it lasts eternally, coupled with learning how to listen and respond to the Holy Ghost teach men and women how to be faith to their spouses even before marriage.

Can you say this about yourself?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Regardless of what you think about Joseph Smith or write about Joseph Smith, this is what I know for sure.

The revelations given to Joseph Smith when lived produce the most righteous, principled, and faithful husbands. My husband was a virgin when we married. My daughter's husband was as well. My son was too.

The gospel of Jesus Christ, as revealed to Joseph Smith, teaches such deep sanc***y of marriage that is so important to God that it lasts eternally, coupled with learning how to listen and respond to the Holy Ghost teach men and women how to be faith to their spouses even before marriage.

Can you say this about yourself?

I read this one story about Smith and his skirt chasing.

he was on the run at that time, I think he had sneaked into a new place to live, staying with some friends of his.

Well......it was getting late, and it was getting about time to turn in for the evening.

Thats when Smith made his play, and told one of the younger girls who lived there his standard pick-up line , of the "God has given you to me as wife" type.

I read that and was just was amazed as the gall of the guy!

Even then???????, even when on the run, he was still thinking with his zipper.??????

and it was his thinking with his zipper that got him in trouble in the first place.

We tend to forget that the reason Smith was in so much hot water, and the reason that was pushing events that were about to overtake him was the simple fact that Smith could not keep it in his pants.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by John T

Let Scripture speak for itself before I reply:

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments

Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God

Daniel 3:29 Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort

Genesis 35: 11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; 12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land

Psalm 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth

Psalm 50:7 Hear, O my people, and I will speak; O Israel, and I will testify against thee: I am God, even thy God

Isaiah 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God

Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else

Isaiah 46:99 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Twice in one verse

Okay, you've got some great OT verses here. (Although, why ignore concrete Genesis for metaphoric Isaiah when we speak of God?, so let's through that one in: "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness," Gen. 1:26)

NT:

And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." Matthew 3:17

"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." Luke 22:42

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" John 20:17

"I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." Acts 7:56

.
The problem with Mormon theology (and presumably your beliefs) is that you ALSO interpolate the doctrine of exaltation into these verses and therefore embrace a contradiction never intended, and not permitted in Scripture alone in any of those 9 verses for the Christian or the Jew, such a thing as Mormon exaltation could never be considered because it is blasphemy.



Here are two verse in Scripture, that seems to be directed particularly against Mormon theology:


[INDENT]Ezekiel 28:9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD

Hosea 11: 9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city

Once again, you have to go to the Old Testament. We do not commit blasphemy, but rather recognize Jesus Christ and believe what he states.

These verses are also included because they describe the penalties that ate given to men who claim to be god. In summary, the doctrine of Mormon exaltation is directed directly AGAINST God, and it is provoking His righteous and jealous wrath upon those who proclaim themselves to be gods

At the top of the page, you asked, "Who do you believe this "Mormo God" is? "

My answer, based upon Scripture is that it is Someone, who has provoked the righteous and jealous wrath of God, and the person is clearly named in Ezekiel 28 as Satan, Himself.

Only when one takes verses ripped from their context can one fond anything that supports Mormon exaltation in Scripture, and that out of context statement would have a 11 or more verses standing in opposition


Not funny in the slightest


Indeed, He does that to His children, but He does NOT do that when you are praying to Satan. That is the gorilla in the room. As long as you believe in exaltation, you can NEVER pray to the God of the Bible.



OUT OF CONTEXT



Therefore this conclusion is incorrect

Okay, so there it is--you believe I am praying to Satan.

But here is what I see--in order to believe what you do, you must stick to the OT. You must not believe the words of Christ as he states them, but rather rely on the OT, much like the Jews did-- and you even use the same beliefs they did to in order to justify themselves when deciding to crucify him to justify yourself.

That you believe that I pray to Satan when I so strongly believe in Jesus Christ and his words and that God will not answer me tells me that you fall to the same "spirit" that the Jews did when they said " Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?" Then Christ said I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me."

[alanmolstad]

When we confess as Thomas to Jesus, "My Lord and my God" we mean that Jesus is the one true Lord God of the Old testament.
The God that spoke out of the burning bush,,,the God that walked in the cool of the garden, etc.

This is why it says of our Lord Jesus, "The Word was with God, the Word was God"

and that is the heart also of the Christ faith, that the God of the Old test,the God of Moses, came to us as a man, born fully human.


So this means that Jesus is always both Fully God, and fully human.

Fully God as being equal to the Father
Fully human as being equal to me.

This is why I can trust the resurrection , for the resurrection of Jesus was that of a fully human that was truly resurrected.
So just as Christ was returned to life, so too will I be one day too,



This is why Jesus could teach us to pray as he also prayed,,,teach us as our brother.
Teach us as a human, and showing how all humans are to pray to their God in heaven.
because Jesus has to natures,,,fully God and fully man.

and as a man, he prayed as I do to the father.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

When we confess as Thomas to Jesus, "My Lord and my God" we mean that Jesus is the one true Lord God of the Old testament.
The God that spoke out of the burning bush,,,the God that walked in the cool of the garden, etc.

This is why it says of our Lord Jesus, "The Word was with God, the Word was God"

and that is the heart also of the Christ faith, that the God of the Old test,the God of Moses, came to us as a man, born fully human.


So this means that Jesus is always both Fully God, and fully human.

Fully God as being equal to the Father
Fully human as being equal to me.

This is why I can trust the resurrection , for the resurrection of Jesus was that of a fully human that was truly resurrected.
So just as Christ was returned to life, so too will I be one day too,



This is why Jesus could teach us to pray as he also prayed,,,teach us as our brother.
Teach us as a human, and showing how all humans are to pray to their God in heaven.
because Jesus has to natures,,,fully God and fully man.

and as a man, he prayed as I do to the father.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ still has his glorified resurrected body?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

When we confess as Thomas to Jesus, "My Lord and my God" we mean that Jesus is the one true Lord God of the Old testament.
The God that spoke out of the burning bush,,,the God that walked in the cool of the garden, etc.

This is why it says of our Lord Jesus, "The Word was with God, the Word was God"

and that is the heart also of the Christ faith, that the God of the Old test,the God of Moses, came to us as a man, born fully human.


So this means that Jesus is always both Fully God, and fully human.

Fully God as being equal to the Father
Fully human as being equal to me.

This is why I can trust the resurrection , for the resurrection of Jesus was that of a fully human that was truly resurrected.
So just as Christ was returned to life, so too will I be one day too,



This is why Jesus could teach us to pray as he also prayed,,,teach us as our brother.
Teach us as a human, and showing how all humans are to pray to their God in heaven.
because Jesus has to natures,,,fully God and fully man.

and as a man, he prayed as I do to the father.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ still has his glorified and resurrected body?

[alanmolstad]

He did not stop being fully human.

This is how we trust what our resurrection will be like..
For Jesus is our example.

[alanmolstad]

He did not stop being fully human.

This is how we trust what our resurrection will be like..
For Jesus is our example.

[alanmolstad]

On phone in forge...don't expect great posts

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

He did not stop being fully human.

This is how we trust what our resurrection will be like..
For Jesus is our example.

So, you are saying he still has his resurrected body, correct?

Do you believe he is on the right hand of God as is explained in the New Testament?

"So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God." Mark 16:19

"Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us." Romans 8:34

[alanmolstad]

In other words....when I say Im the "right hand man" of my boss......what is that talking about?

where Im standing?.....

no

What is it talking abut?

Its speaks of my relationship with my boss...the reliance he has placed in me.




Its the same whenever I or another Christians view the Lord Jesus being at the right side of the father...its about his relationship...

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

In other words....when I say Im the "right hand man" of my boss......what is that talking about?

where Im standing?.....

no

What is it talking abut?

Its speaks of my relationship with my boss...the reliance he has placed in me.




Its the same whenever I or another Christians view the Lord Jesus being at the right side of the father...its about his relationship...

Okay, so you believe that this "right hand of God" is a metaphor that Jesus Christ has with God the Father (being his right-hand man, so to speak with God the Father being the boss).

When you speak of God the Father (the one that Christ refers to) do you think of him as the Holy Ghost? Or would you describe Him as you would describe Jesus Christ? (The one that Christ has a metaphorical relationship with.)

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Okay, so you believe that this "right hand of God" is a metaphor

I think most all the use of the term, "The right hand of God" are in reference to Psalm 110:1 and even that use is still very connected to the whole "right hand clean, left hand for ****" context...


Thus being at the "right hand" of God, or being my boss's "right hand man" is a use of the term that talks about a relationship...a closeness....

..in a modern Bible translation that seeks to help the modern reader to understand the context of what even the first Christian killed in the Bible is talking about, they will likely make use of the term, "position of honor" to help us understand what being the right hand guy means today...

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

When you speak of God the Father (the one that Christ refers to) do you think of him as the Holy Ghost? Or would you describe Him as you would describe Jesus Christ? (The one that Christ has a metaphorical relationship with.)

This is God = within the nature of the One true God, there are three persons.





Each is fully God Almighty, each is equally God....None is "more" god than the others.

But also within the relationship of these 3 persons there is a way they relate to each other.....the father being greater....the son being submissive.



and yes, there is no known thing or idea I can point to in creation that is "just like God".....so while I might try to make a comparison to what is God like by pointing to this or that thing,,,the truth is, that God being as He is, is totally unlike anything or anyone....




we just have to deal with that fact....

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

This is God = within the nature of the One true God, there are three persons.





Each is fully God Almighty, each is equally God....None is "more" god than the others.

But also within the relationship of these 3 persons there is a way they relate to each other.....the father being greater....the son being submissive.



and yes, there is no known thing or idea I can point to in creation that is "just like God".....so while I might try to make a comparison to what is God like by pointing to this or that thing,,,the truth is, that God being as He is, is totally unlike anything or anyone....




we just have to deal with that fact....

Okay, so to you, there is a "person" who is God the Father that Christ has a submissive relationship to, but he is NOT like Jesus Christ, correct? He is unlike anything we have experienced, even the resurrected Christ. This is how you understand God the Father, right?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Okay, so to you, there is a "person" who is God the Father that Christ has a submissive relationship to, but he is NOT like Jesus Christ, correct? He is unlike anything we have experienced, even the resurrected Christ. This is how you understand God the Father, right?

Within the nature of the one True God., there three Divine persons.

There is the Father, who is pure spirit, eternal God, from everlasting to everlasting.

There is the Holy Spirit , who is pure spirit, eternal God, from everlasting to everlasting.

There is the Son, who is pure spirit, eternal God, from everlasting to everlasting.



But so that man might be saved, the Son came to us as a man.
The Son never stopped being God Almighty...never stopped being pure spirit.
Yet with this Divine nature the Son took on to himself the nature of man.


So the Son is yet God...and yet man.

The Son has two natures.


Thus the Son is equal to the Father in His nature as God.
and is equal to me in His nature as man.

The Son is not Less that God the father in his nature as God.
The son is not less than me in his nature as man.






Ok?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Within the nature of the one True God., there three Divine persons.

There is the Father, who is pure spirit, eternal God, from everlasting to everlasting.

There is the Holy Spirit , who is pure spirit, eternal God, from everlasting to everlasting.

There is the Son, who is pure spirit, eternal God, from everlasting to everlasting.



But so that man might be saved, the Son came to us as a man.
The Son never stopped being God Almighty...never stopped being pure spirit.
Yet with this Divine nature the Son took on to himself the nature of man.


So the Son is yet God...and yet man.

The Son has two natures.


Thus the Son is equal to the Father in His nature as God.
and is equal to me in His nature as man.

The Son is not Less that God the father in his nature as God.
The son is not less than me in his nature as man.






Ok?

and this is why the Bible says "For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus"

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Within the nature of the one True God., there three Divine persons.

There is the Father, who is pure spirit, eternal God, from everlasting to everlasting.

There is the Holy Spirit , who is pure spirit, eternal God, from everlasting to everlasting.

There is the Son, who is pure spirit, eternal God, from everlasting to everlasting.



But so that man might be saved, the Son came to us as a man.
The Son never stopped being God Almighty...never stopped being pure spirit.
Yet with this Divine nature the Son took on to himself the nature of man.


So the Son is yet God...and yet man.

The Son has two natures.


Thus the Son is equal to the Father in His nature as God.
and is equal to me in His nature as man.

The Son is not Less that God the father in his nature as God.
The son is not less than me in his nature as man.






Ok?

So, you believe that Jesus Christ is equal to the Father as far as his nature, but NOT like his father in having a body. In this way, you believe that they are different.

So, do you believe that Jesus Christ has less power, less ability, less capacity because he has a resurrected body?
Or do you believe that God the Father has more power than Jesus Christ because he does not?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, you believe .....

see post 61