Is God unable to create in kind?

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

lower case "g"

Do a little reading, Andy.

Here is what you said.

It is your disrespect of God that I am attacking.

I do not see a lower case g for God.

And if you are referring to the mormon god, then the lower case g is appropriate.

If you don't think it is I would like to see you prove from the Bible that it isn't.

The mormon god is not found in the Bible except where ever it talks about false gods and that should be enough to get you to doing some serious thinking about your false prophet Smith and the anti-Christian church he started.

Andy

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

Here is what you said.


I do not see a lower case g for God.

And if you are referring to the mormon god, then the lower case g is appropriate.

See there you are too. Blaspheming and being irreverent. You cannot be Christian when you blaspheme the God of Christianity like that.

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

See there you are too. Blaspheming and being irreverent. You cannot be Christian when you blaspheme the God of Christianity like that.

Sorry you feel that way fig.

I am being just about irreverent as Elijah was to the false gods and prophets of Baal.

If you want to talk about irreverent, talk about how irreverent Smith was to the God of the Bible....it doesn't get any worse than what he did.

Smith couldn't of believed in God the way he ran God through the mud.

I know it has to be hard on you being in a cult and all.

We are praying for you.

Andy

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

Smith couldn't of believed in God the way he ran God through the mud.

More hot air on your part, Andy.

Joseph certainly argued against the sectarian notion of God as promoted by orthodox theologians of his time, if that's what you mean. But he had the highest adoration and reverence for God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

More hot air on your part, Andy.

Joseph certainly argued against the sectarian notion of God as promoted by orthodox theologians of his time, if that's what you mean. But he had the highest adoration and reverence for God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ.

Hmmmm. Making God in the likeness of men...going as far as to say God hasn't always been God, but some schmuck on an imaginary planet/sun called "Kolob" who earned his godhood merit badge at some kind of celestial jamboree is having "the highest adoration and reverence"???

Hardly. JS created an IDOL from his own imagination. The Mormon god ain't the biblical God, Fig.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Hmmmm. Making God in the likeness of men...going as far as to say God hasn't always been God, but some schmuck on an imaginary planet/sun called "Kolob" who earned his godhood merit badge at some kind of celestial jamboree...

---Yet YOU believed, FOR DECADES, that all that was not only plausible, but TRUE, FJD. What excuse do you have for being so stewpid as to believe all that stuff?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Yet YOU believed, FOR DECADES, that all that was not only plausible, but TRUE, FJD. What excuse do you have for being so stewpid as to believe all that stuff?

I believed that as well Jeff, but the fact that someone believes something does not make it true. I was clearly blinded by the enemy.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I believed that as well Jeff, but the fact that someone believes something does not make it true.

--Nor does the fact that you renounced it make UNtrue.

I was clearly blinded by the enemy.

---Sure, "clearly" ..

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Yet YOU believed, FOR DECADES, that all that was not only plausible, but TRUE, FJD. What excuse do you have for being so stewpid as to believe all that stuff?

LOL! I believed it because I didn't know any better, jeff...First of all, I read the Bible in bits and pieces LIKE YOU, and really didn't KNOW the Bible. Secondly, I was indoctrinated to MISREAD the Bible just like YOU until God bestowed GRACE upon me and enabled me to read the Holy Text IN CONTEXT.

What's YOUR excuse for still believing in JS IDOL??

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

LOL! I believed it because I didn't know any better, jeff...First of all, I read the Bible in bits and pieces LIKE YOU, and really didn't KNOW the Bible. Secondly, I was indoctrinated to MISREAD the Bible just like YOU until God bestowed GRACE upon me and enabled me to read the Holy Text IN CONTEXT.

What's YOUR excuse for still believing in JS IDOL??

---Simple: The God of Evanism hasn't deigned to bestow any of that capriciously applied GRACE on me yet. So there's my excuse! Cool, huh?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Simple: The God of Evanism hasn't deigned to bestow any of that capriciously applied GRACE on me yet. So there's my excuse!

Jeff, the saddest part of your statement is that it is likely true. But I am holding on to the "YET" in your statement. He dragged me out of Mormonism, I wouldn't be surprised that He does the same for you at some point in your life. Regeneration (born again) is the work of God and not of man. Without being born again you can't even see the kingdom of God. I think that is why you are having such hard time understanding Biblical doctrine.

John 3:3 "In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." (NIV)

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Jeff, the saddest part of your statement is that it is likely true.

---I agree: The belief that God is that capricious and micro-managing, IS sad. That's why I reject it.

But I am holding on to the "YET" in your statement. He dragged me out of Mormonism, I wouldn't be surprised that He does the same for you at some point in your life.

--I would be VERY surprised if that were to happen, since so far no other set of doctrines makes as much sense and portrays God as rationally.

Regeneration (born again) is the work of God and not of man. Without being born again you can't even see the kingdom of God. I think that is why you are having such hard time understanding Biblical doctrine.

---You don't see how "cult-think" that idea is? "The reason our beliefs seem illogical and unfair to you, is simply because God hasn't called you to be one of "the Body" and you are therefore UNABLE to understand these concepts." What a great (but condescending) excuse for the illogic of one's beliefs. Didn't the Gnostics have similar reasoning?

John 3:3 "In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." (NIV)

---Does that explain why you fail to see the kingdom of God among the LDS?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

Originally Posted by Billyray

Regeneration (born again) is the work of God and not of man. Without being born again you can't even see the kingdom of God.

---You don't see how "cult-think" that idea is? "The reason our beliefs seem illogical and unfair to you, is simply because God hasn't called you to be one of "the Body" and you are therefore UNABLE to understand these concepts." What a great (but condescending) excuse for the illogic of one's beliefs. Didn't the Gnostics have similar reasoning?

Jeff, did you cause yourself to be physically born? Who regenerates you, God OR do you do it yourself with the aid of your priesthood?

[nrajeff]

Billy, who causes you to learn and understand stuff? ONLY God? Who gets the credit when you understand and accept teachings about God, Jesus, and the gospel? Who gets the blame when you FAIL to understand those things? If you believe that God is solely and directly responsible for all your successes, then have fun with the hyperCalvinists, but try to realize that such reasoning, taken to its conclusion, ends up blaming God for all your failures, too. Oh, and the HyperCalvinists are somewhat of an extremist fringe of Evangelicalism, which itself is a minority subset of modern Christendom.

[akaSeerone]

OK, let's go along with what you say and put the blame on God.

So what!?!?

Without God where are we?

No where....we wouldn't exist.

Without God what are we.

Nothing....we would not exist.

You antis have a lot of nerve point you wretched bonny fingers at God and blaming Him for what man did to His perfect creation.

As the saying goes....God have mercy on your soul...in hell.

Andy

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

OK, let's go along with what you say and put the blame on God.
So what!?!?
Without God where are we?
No where....we wouldn't exist.
Without God what are we.
Nothing....we would not exist.
You antis have a lot of nerve point you wretched bonny fingers at God and blaming Him for what man did to His perfect creation.
As the saying goes....God have mercy on your soul...in hell.
Andy

--Andy, as usual you don't have a CLUE what you are talking about. It's NOT the LDS who put the blame on God, it's the anti-LDS who don't consider the end-result of their doctrine.

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

--Andy, as usual you don't have a CLUE what you are talking about. It's NOT the LDS who put the blame on God, it's the anti-LDS who don't consider the end-result of their doctrine.

Get real mormon

It is you mormons that falsely accuse us Christians of blaming God because as mormon you have no clue about Biblical context and thus you are the one that has no idea what YOU are talking about and that in the long run does have you mormons blaming God.

Andy

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

Billy, who causes you to learn and understand stuff? ONLY God? Who gets the credit when you understand and accept teachings about God, Jesus, and the gospel? Who gets the blame when you FAIL to understand those things? If you believe that God is solely and directly responsible for all your successes, then have fun with the hyperCalvinists, but try to realize that such reasoning, taken to its conclusion, ends up blaming God for all your failures, too. Oh, and the HyperCalvinists are somewhat of an extremist fringe of Evangelicalism, which itself is a minority subset of modern Christendom.

Who said anything about Calvinism? You of course. That seems to be your pet word. Again you did not answer my question, so here it is again.

Who regenerates you, God OR do you do it yourself with the aid of your priesthood?

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Who said anything about Calvinism? You of course.

---That's probably because you don't want to admit what your beliefs are, or where you learned them. Prove me wrong and tell me that you REJECT the TULIP's 5 points. And tell me that you didn't learn your current beliefs from some Calvinist Evangelicals. I am calling your bluff, and I should have done so long ago.

Who regenerates you, God OR do you do it yourself with the aid of your priesthood?

---God, of course, but it's irrelevant to what we were discussing.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---That's probably because you don't want to admit what your beliefs are, or where you learned them.

My beliefs are taken straight from the Bible, that is where I learned them and that is the standard that I hold for each belief.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Billyray

My beliefs are taken straight from the Bible, that is where I learned them and that is the standard that I hold for each belief.

---Well, thanks for letting that much trickle out, but are you seriously claiming that you just read the Bible, with ZERO input from any Evangelicals, and voila, you ended up with your current beliefs? And what about my other question--do you really reject all 5 points of TULIP? Do you think I am really that gullible?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Well, thanks for letting that much trickle out, but are you seriously claiming that you just read the Bible, with ZERO input from any Evangelicals, and voila, you ended up with your current beliefs? And what about my other question--do you really reject all 5 points of TULIP? Do you think I am really that gullible?

You sure seem hung up on Calvinism. Why is that ?

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You sure seem hung up on Calvinism. Why is that ?

---Besides the fact that it's an insult to God? Not much. Why do YOU seem so hung up on not admitting whether or not you subscribe to it? Does it embarr*** you that much? Then why not renounce it and come back to correct theology and soteriology? What does God think of your perpetual fence-sitting? Why not take a stand, either FOR TULIP, or AGAINST it? Are you afraid of the scorn that MEN will pour out on you if you come out of the closet?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

------Besides the fact that it's an insult to God? Not much. Why do YOU seem so hung up on not admitting whether or not you subscribe to it?

Jeff, you really don't get it--do you? You seem to want to pigeon hole Christians into taking their ideas and theology from extra-Biblical sources and/or their pastors and leaders. Do you think that it is impossible for a person to take his beliefs from scripture alone? If so why do you believe that?

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Jeff, you really don't get it--do you?

---How can I get something that is like pulling teeth to get out of you? Why are you so afraid to actually TELL US WHAT YOUR BELIEFS ARE on the relevant issues--theology, Christology, and soteriology? FJD isn't scared to admit what HE is. Maybe you can take some courage from his example and just come out of that closet. Or maybe not. We will see.

You seem to want to pigeon hole Christians into taking their ideas and theology from extra-Biblical sources and/or their pastors and leaders.

--Well, gee, let's see: The LUTHERANS seem to have been influenced by....LUTHER. The Methodists by Wesley. The Augustinians and about 90% of today's Christians by...AUGUSTINE. See a pattern developing? No? Get the blinders off then.

Do you think that it is impossible for a person to take his beliefs from scripture alone?

---No, I don't think it's impossible. I just don't believe that YOU did it. I think such learning-in-a-total-vacuum is extremely rare these days. I don't see how you could even come close to Vincenzo Di Francesca's experience, where he found a cover-less BOM in a trash can and became converted to its teachings ONLY though his own reading of the book--no outside "exegeters," commentaries, or systematic theologies.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.js...004d82620aRCRD

Still waiting for you to quit playing "In the closet" regarding what you believe. Sheesh, you're not doing a stellar *** of teaching others what you believe, like missionaries of various faiths are supposed to do. I know, from decades of experience including my own mission, that it's not always easy, or pleasant, or comfortable telling others what one's beliefs are. And it's more fun to play Sniper and shoot at others from a hidden position of safety. But you lose credibility every time you have a chance to share but choose not to.