And would that be someone who follows the spirit and does the will of the Father? (Or do they do their own thing and not worry about following the spirit and doing the will of the Father-rather trusting in what they want to do and what they think will work? )
I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
Because Christians are regenerated they have a naturally desire to follow God.
I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
How does a person become regenerated or born again?
How you can tell if someone is "regenerated" or not if they all look so different? (Would the thief on the cross have looked more similar to other--can I say, regenerates--if he had more time off the cross?)
I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
Oh, we are back to this discussion. I saw in one of your last posts that you believe NOW that either faith first and then regenerate or others can be regenerate first and then faith. Which is it? Or do you, does it not matter.
I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
As an outsider looking in you and I can't know for sure who is regenerated or who is unregenerate. Only God knows for sure. There will be wheat and tares sitting next to each other in church each Sunday, and they may superficially look quite similar. However it is true that a person who is regenerated will become more and more Christ like over time a process that is called sanctification. But each Christian starts out at his own starting point and that starting point might look quite un Christian to those critical of outward appearances like you.
Good, I guess that is my point, you don't seem to resemble Christ to me in the way you post. Sorry.As an outsider looking in you and I can't know for sure who is regenerated or who is unregenerate. Only God knows for sure. There will be wheat and tares sitting next to each other in church each Sunday, and they may superficially look quite similar. However it is true that a person who is regenerated will become more and more Christ like over time a process that is called sanctification. But each Christian starts out at his own starting point and that starting point might look quite un Christian to those critical of outward appearances like you.
I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
You know exactly what I believe. A person is regenerated first which then leads to faith in Christ. Erik etc. believe faith precedes regeneration. We had a entire thread about this so I am sure you remember. Now can you answer my question?
BigJ how does a person become regenerated or born again?
"You know exactly what I believe." Your politeness leads me to believe you are not regenerate because, as you said, you don't resemble Christ. I just can't picture Him saying that to me when I ask Him a question.You know exactly what I believe. A person is regenerated first which then leads to faith in Christ. Erik etc. believe faith precedes regeneration. We had a entire thread about this so I am sure you remember. Now can you answer my question?
BigJ how does a person become regenerated or born again?
I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
And because you "know" and because I know for sure that you are not "God"---once again, another example of someone who does not resemble Christ.
I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
We are "Christians" only because of the resurrection.
Regeneration means that one has been born again or born from above (John 3:3, 5, 7, 8). Conversion occurs when sinners turn to God in repentance and faith for salvation. Sinners are converted when they repent of their sins and turn to faith in Jesus Christ, trusting in him for the forgiveness of their sins.
Calvinists believe that a man is regenerated or has eternal life before he repents or believes. This is not Biblical.
Regeneration does not precede faith.
John 20:31 .that BELIEVING YE MIGHT HAVE LIFE through his name. --
John 3:36 he that BELIEVETH NOT the Son SHALL NOT SEE LIFE .
1 Tim. 1:16 . to them which should hereafter BELIEVE on him TO LIFE everlasting. --
Regeneration or being born again means that a sinner, dead in tresp***es and sins, becomes alive spiritually as a child of God. The Scriptures are clear that faith or belief precedes spiritual rebirth or regeneration.This is contrary to those, who believe the elect is regenerated BEFORE faith.
REPENT ye therefore, and BE CONVERTED, THAT YOUR SINS may be blotted out. Acts 3:19
Through his name whosoever BELIEVETH in him SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS. Acts 10:43
They should REPENT and TURN TO GOD, and do works meet for repentance. Acts 26:20
Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance UNTO LIFE . Acts 11:18
Sword you have your facts wrong. We both believe that we are justified AFTER conversion which is faith and repentance. However I do agree with you in that regeneration is being spiritually born and conversion is repentance and faith. We just differ on the order that regeneration and conversion take place.Regeneration means that one has been born again or born from above (John 3:3, 5, 7, 8). Conversion occurs when sinners turn to God in repentance and faith for salvation. . . Calvinists believe that a man is regenerated or has eternal life before he repents or believes. This is not Biblical.
source monergism.comReformed camp, the ordo salutis is
1) election
2) predestination
3) gospel call
4) inward call
5) regeneration
6) conversion (faith & repentance)
7) justification
8) sanctification
9) glorification
Arminian camp, the ordo salutis is
1) outward call
2) faith/election
3) repentance
4) regeneration
5) justification
6) perseverance
7) glorification
delete personal comment
Last edited by Billyray; 05-27-2011 at 09:01 AM.
Notice that your verses are speaking of conversion which is repentance and faith. We both believe that repentance and faith (conversion) precedes justification.Regeneration does not precede faith.
John 20:31 .that BELIEVING YE MIGHT HAVE LIFE through his name. --
John 3:36 he that BELIEVETH NOT the Son SHALL NOT SEE LIFE .
1 Tim. 1:16 . to them which should hereafter BELIEVE on him TO LIFE everlasting. --
REPENT ye therefore, and BE CONVERTED, THAT YOUR SINS may be blotted out. Acts 3:19
Last edited by Billyray; 05-27-2011 at 09:21 AM.