Is God unable to create in kind?

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Fig, the foundation has ALREADY been set and consists of THE apostles with Jesus being the "chief corner stone".

---What are those original 12 apostles doing for Christians these days? Have they written any epistle updates to address the problems of OUR century? Seems like those apostles are nowhere to be found outside the LDS church, which continues to have that foundation where the rest of Christendom has abandoned it. Face it, you got no foundation anymore. You haven't had one since the 2nd century. And look at the mess that Christendom is in as a result. Paul is probably sitting up in heaven saying "I TOLD you that Jesus gave apostles to help the work of the ministry and edify the saints until they all come to unity of faith and a degree of perfection comparable to the stature of Christ! You should have listened to me! At the rate you're going, you're NEVER gonna reach that level I mentioned in my epistle to the Ephesians! "



By the way, the topic of this thread is whether or not God is able to create anyone like Himself.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Fig, the foundation has ALREADY been set and consists of THE apostles with Jesus being the "chief corner stone".

Ephesians 2:20 "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Notice in verse 14 below it speaks about the wall of the city will have twelve foundations for THE TWELVE APOSTLES of the Lamb. This clearly is speaking about Christ's original 12 apostles. If there were to be a continuos line of apostles throughout ages this verse would not make sense OR at the minimum be unclear about which 12 it was speaking about.

Revelation 21
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Still, if you remove a foundation, the building collapses. Show me in the bible that the foundation exists in the absence of Apostles and prophets.

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

-----I have yet to see ANY church today that IS an exact REPLICA of the original. Can YOU name one? Also, I have yet to see a churcht currently in existence that comes CLOSER to that original church than the LDS church does. If you know of one that DOES, please name it for me.


---The LDS church IS different from the original in many ways, such as: the original one didn't use computerized databases for membership records. Etc. Is that bad of us to be different in areas like that?

Jeff....the lds "church" is no Church in the Biblical sense....it is only an organization playing church and God does not play games.....that makes the lds organization anti-Church/anti-Christian.

Your post is nothing more than lds propaganda and adds nothing to this forum worth considering.

If you are going to make such bold statements you have to back them up....we are not going to take your say-so for it.

The New Testament Church did not teach:

That God is an exalted man that became God,

That Jesus and Satan are brothers,

That works are required for salvation,

That God was using Prophets like He did under the Old Covenant.....

So, no, the lds organization has nothing in common with the New Testament Church.

Andy

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by aaronshaf

The short answer is "yes" to the original question.

But the answer is "yes" in Mormonism as well. In Mormonism, God does not really create after his own kind. In fact, his own kind are beings that are co-eternal and self-existent. Our particular God didn't given them their existence, and at spirit birth (if you affirm the traditional view of viviparous spirit-birth) he doesn't technically "make them after his own kind"; he merely clothes an existing co-eternal self-existent being already of the same fundamental species with a spirit-body.

Put more succinctly, the Mormon God doesn't have the ability to create beings of the same species. He only has the ability to clothe co-eternal beings of the same species with different kinds of bodies.

So--when the spirit(from God) inhabits the mortal body--does that mean mankind does not have the ability to reproduce after his own kind?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

All of God's creations (speaking of living creations) are a testimony of life producing life after its kind. That life begets life, in kind.

Is the God of orthodoxy unable to do this himself?

How can you create an uncreated being?

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Libby

How can you create an uncreated being?

One can't, hence the category error made by Figgy.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Libby

How can you create an uncreated being?

You can't conjure up. But you can beget an uncreated being. Humans beget beings in kind all the time. Depending on your definition of "create" we don't create them do we?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

You can't conjure up. But you can beget an uncreated being. Humans beget beings in kind all the time. Depending on your definition of "create" we don't create them do we?

No. God does that through the biological process He created.

I'm just saying, it's not logical that an "uncreated" being could be created. God has no beginning or end, so He was not created...He has always existed. How could, even HE, "create" something that has always existed?

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Libby

No. God does that through the biological process He created.

I'm just saying, it's not logical that an "uncreated" being could be created. God has no beginning or end, so He was not created...He has always existed. How could, even HE, "create" something that has always existed?

So if God can create a biological process to beget life, why can't he create a spirit process to beget spirit life?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

So if God can create a biological process to beget life, why can't he create a spirit process to beget spirit life?

I am not saying that He didn't create spirit.. The Bible says that He did.. He just did it within us.. (Zech 12:1) Mormonism denys that saying that god created our spirits and place our preexisting spirit in it.. Like most LDS doctrine this one is upside down.. IHS jim

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I am not saying that He didn't create spirit.. The Bible says that He did.. He just did it within us.. (Zech 12:1) Mormonism denys that saying that god created our spirits and place our preexisting spirit in it.. Like most LDS doctrine this one is upside down.. IHS jim

Not quite. You are confused. Care to try again?

Or you could always ask to find out what we really believe.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Not quite. You are confused. Care to try again?

Or you could always ask to find out what we really believe.

Have you read and prayed about the meaning? Doesn't sound. I could get as hateful as you did here and was very tempted to be so.. Maybe you should take some time off so you can treat others with a level a civility..IHS jim

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Have you read and prayed about the meaning? Doesn't sound. I could get as hateful as you did here and was very tempted to be so.. Maybe you should take some time off so you can treat others with a level a civility..IHS jim

I'm just saying that your information wasn't quite right. If you would like to be corrected, all you need do is ask...politely.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

I'm just saying that your information wasn't quite right. If you would like to be corrected, all you need do is ask...politely.

I am saying that being corrected by someone who looks to a man like Joseph Smith as being a prophet of God has nothing to teach anyone.. My doctrine is correct being Biblical. Just by saying that it isn't shows that you are so far from God's truth that you have much more to learn than you have to teach.. IHS jim

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I am saying that being corrected by someone who looks to a man like Joseph Smith as being a prophet of God has nothing to teach anyone.. My doctrine is correct being Biblical. Just by saying that it isn't shows that you are so far from God's truth that you have much more to learn than you have to teach.. IHS jim

So your representation of LDS beliefs was not correct, and you don't want to be corrected? OK, Got it.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

So your representation of LDS beliefs was not correct, and you don't want to be corrected? OK, Got it.

Since there are just about as many views of what mormonism is as there are mormons I an not surprised that you think I am wrong.. I guess when I was among you I had a different view of what the doctrine was.. Now if I have to beg you to share your view I am not interested.. I will just see you as one more mormon that believes they can pick and choose the commandments they want to keep.. As I read the Great Commission I see that I am called to tell the whole world about my faith..

Matthew 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

That is my interpretation of the p***age I don't know or understand how you could get anything else out of it.. IHS jim

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Since there are just about as many views of what mormonism is as there are mormons I an not surprised that you think I am wrong.. I guess when I was among you I had a different view of what the doctrine was.. Now if I have to beg you to share your view I am not interested...

Well, I suppose that sometimes maintaining one's ignorance is the best comfort he can find.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Well, I suppose that sometimes maintaining one's ignorance is the best comfort he can find.

So that's what you are doing... I challenged my belief in mormonism and that challenge lead me to truth.. You have not even looked into the the if the teachings of Joseph Smith were true or where his later teachings came from.. You haven't worked out how God being Spirit can be true when Smith said that God isn't a spirit but a person of flesh and bone (D&C 130:22).. Or why a Book translated by the power of God had to undergo over 3,000 changes to get it right.. Or how David and Solomon could be an abomination in Jacob 2 of the BofM and justified in the 132 section of the D&C.. Why is the Bible so completely adamant that salvation is by God's grace through faith (John 3:15-16, Eph 2:8-9) and yet Joseph Smith have built in works that are the requirements (water baptism, laying on of hands, priesthoods, and temple endowment) for everlasting life?

Yes It looks as though I just gave up real truth and ran into error doesn't? NOT.. I actually look deep into the error and begged Jesus to forgive me and make me His child (John 1:12).. IHS jim

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

So that's what you are doing... I challenged my belief in mormonism and that challenge lead me to truth.. You have not even looked into the the if the teachings of Joseph Smith were true or where his later teachings came from.. You haven't worked out how God being Spirit can be true when Smith said that God isn't a spirit but a person of flesh and bone (D&C 130:22).. Or why a Book translated by the power of God had to undergo over 3,000 changes to get it right.. Or how David and Solomon could be an abomination in Jacob 2 of the BofM and justified in the 132 section of the D&C.. Why is the Bible so completely adamant that salvation is by God's grace through faith (John 3:15-16, Eph 2:8-9) and yet Joseph Smith have built in works that are the requirements (water baptism, laying on of hands, priesthoods, and temple endowment) for everlasting life?

Yes It looks as though I just gave up real truth and ran into error doesn't? NOT.. I actually look deep into the error and begged Jesus to forgive me and make me His child (John 1:12).. IHS jim

But it looks like either a) you never understood LDS doctrine when you were IN the Church. or b) you forgot what you believed, and now are bent on misrepresenting yourself by making statements that are not accurate.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

But it looks like either a) you never understood LDS doctrine when you were IN the Church. or b) you forgot what you believed, and now are bent on misrepresenting yourself by making statements that are not accurate.

If and when I misrepresent church doctrine point it out.. I have been in Gospel Doctrine cl***es where members have disagreed on points of doctrine before.. Just because you say what the doctrine of the church is doesn't make it so.. IHS jim

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by James Banta

If and when I misrepresent church doctrine point it out.. I have been in Gospel Doctrine cl***es where members have disagreed on points of doctrine before.. Just because you say what the doctrine of the church is doesn't make it so.. IHS jim

You got that right Jim.

How many times have we seen mormons on these boards claim that even the things that Smith and Young said were not doctrine even though they taught it as doctrine?

Andy

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

If and when I misrepresent church doctrine point it out..

OK, when you said this:

Mormonism denys that saying that god created our spirits and place our preexisting spirit in it.. Like most LDS doctrine this one is upside down.. IHS jim

Do you see what is misrepresentative about this?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

OK, when you said this:



Do you see what is misrepresentation about this?

No Mormonism teaches that God created our spirits and placed them into. First the spirit then the physical body later.. The Bible says (Very clearly) that God Created the spirit of man within him (Zech 12:1) By saying that Mormonism is teaching other than that it is NOT a misrepresentation unless you want to tell me that God didn't create the the spirit of man in a pre-existence.. I am willing to talk about this teaching if you an tell me something new that I am not aware of.. But if the mormon god created the spirits of man before there was a body to created it in I am solid in my statements. IHS jim

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

But it looks like either a) you never understood LDS doctrine when you were IN the Church. or b) you forgot what you believed, and now are bent on misrepresenting yourself by making statements that are not accurate.

Why are you so bent on lying?

Do you think that will somehow change the fact that mormonism is a false religion and in no way whatsoever Christian?

Andy

[stemelbow]

Interesting question in light of mainstreamism. How could Jesus' person be uncreated if His person was not around before God created? Did Jesus' person become uncreated the very moment God conjured up the idea that He needed a Jesus (man/God) to save mankind?

love,
stem