The Logos (As I understand it)

[Scripturefocus]

Originally Posted by GateKeeper

Being that I am not a Chritadelphian, but only attend their meetings from time to time, I think you might be better served to ask a Christadelphan Jesus' relation with the father prior to His earthly dwelling. If you wish to know my view apart from a Christadelphian perspective, (as my views do differ from their own on this matter), then I'd be happy to explain elsewhere.

Blessings

GK

That's fine. Where would you like to discuss it?

[asdf]

Originally Posted by GateKeeper

Being that I am not a Chritadelphian, but only attend their meetings from time to time, I think you might be better served to ask a Christadelphan Jesus' relation with the father prior to His earthly dwelling. If you wish to know my view apart from a Christadelphian perspective, (as my views do differ from their own on this matter), then I'd be happy to explain elsewhere.

Blessings

GK

Originally Posted by Scripturefocus

That's fine. Where would you like to discuss it?

Hi GK! I'd also be very interested to see where your beliefs differ from "official" Christadelphian doctrine.

[GateKeeper]

Originally Posted by asdf

Hi GK! I'd also be very interested to see where your beliefs differ from "official" Christadelphian doctrine.

It is my understanding that Jesus was the manifestation of the Word of God. I believe He was conceived by this Spirit/Word, and therefore became that Spirit in His reality. All others merely reflect His light from within themselves, but are not the light, as I believe that Jesus is the light. He is the door to the kingdom, all who came before Him were thieves and robbers, and all who come after are vessels of His reality.

Jesus had a beginning (Obviously), whereas Gods Word/Wisdom/Spirit is eternal. Jesus was conceived by the Spirit/Word which made the Logos a very real part of His being. He was also given a name above every name by which we are saved. He not only manifest the Spirit, or "Logos", but He became that Spirit in His reality. (The Word was made Flesh)

Scripture tells us that Jesus is Lord, and it is only through Him that any of us are saved. We merely allow Him to dwell in us, and reflect the light that we know in Him. He is the Spirit of truth and none come to the father, but by Him. "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Jesus is that name. He makes His dwelling in those whom desire to know the Spirit of Truth, but it is also my belief that He is available to all men regardless of theological views.

The Word/Logos was God inasmuch as it contained Gods "essence", or "substance" as a creative power. You can't pour the entire ocean (God) into a coffee cup, but you can fill it with its substance. The Logos is God's substance. The logos contained God's Spirit/Wisdom, and was the creative force behind creation as laid out in Proverbs 8th Chapter.

It is my view that the manifestation of the logos only occurred once in Jesus. There could no longer be manifestations of the Logos separate from Jesus, as Jesus became the logos Himself. All other manifestations are manifestations of Gods son "The" anointed one. All who come after Jesus are simply vessels filled with His substance. The Spirit/Word/Wisdom became a living being, and was given a name above every name. (Jesus the Christ - Son of God)

Think about it like this: Jesus was conceived by the Logos/Spirit of God (The creative power, and Wisdom of our Creator). That Spirit was a very real part of His makeup/His being/His essence, but so was the Flesh of Mary. Before He could be glorified, and become the Logos alone, He had to destroy His human/Flesh nature completely. This was accomplished in the three days He was in the grave, and at His resurrection. He was raised a glorified body, as the Logos. He had defeated death, or rather His flesh, and was raised a Spirit (Logos) in a "glorified" body.

I have also given a great deal of thought as to what the door keeper/gate keeper represents in John 10:3, and I realized that I am in control of the forces I let in, and the forces I don't. For instance, I could allow (In myself) resentment, and bitterness, and anger, and all the other negative evils that destroy my peace, but I have realized that I am the keeper of the gates when it comes to me.

It is I who opens the door for Christ when it comes to myself. Being that Christ dwells within us as Spirit, is it not reasonable to ***ume that each of us are responsible for opening the door for Him? Each of us are the Gate Keepers when it comes to ourselves, yes?

Christ is the door, and when we open that door, He fills us with Himself. We have to be willing to open the door, however. We have to desire the things of God, and be willing to let Christ in. What He accomplished on the the cross extends beyond our systems of belief. He has become the Spirit of truth by which all men can be Saved.

Not all accept this Spirit within themselves. Many prefer the forces of darkness above the light. Many prefer to anger, and hold resentment, and bitterness towards others. Many prefer pride over humility, hate over love, and the workings of the flesh above the Spirit. We have to open ourselves up to His reality, and to His ways. We have to value, and embrace love deeply within ourselves, (God is Love) and it is through Gods love that we find Christ - The Spirit of Truth.

I hope this helps you understand where I am coming from better, and show you how my views differ from Christadelphian thought.

Love and Blessings,

James

[aristotle]

first, John 1:1 ends with a clear declaration that the Word was God i.e. deity not to mention that john says that the Word was "proston theon" , face to face with God. no matter how you slice it, the Word (Christ) is God.

secondly, Hebrews 1 says that the Father says to the Son, "Thy throne, O God..." i think i will pay attention to what the Father says.

thirdly, john 20 is very explicit. john wrote all he wrote that we might know that Jesus is the Christ. Christ, of course, is the Word who became flesh which is john 1.

in short, if you want to make arius your hero, ok! but he was a heretic because he did deny the very thing that the apostles spoke of over and over again. Paul said it very well, "every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess Ieyasus Christos Kurios, Jesus Christ, Jehovah God" amen!!

[canucks33]

54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad." 57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!" 58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

JOHN 8:54-58 (NIV)

The hearers of Jesus Christ knew what Jesus was trying to say..... they understood the meaning of Jesus calling Himself as "I am" (v.8) and what was their response? They would like to stone Jesus Christ for blasphemy.

The problem with some of the cults is that they inject "their meaning" to the text (eisogesis) instead of getting what the text is trying to say (exegesis). There are many texts in Scripture that when Jesus claimed His Divinity, His listeners knew the implication. Clearly Jesus is not just a "reflection" of God or a "sample" of God.

As others pointed out, Jesus clearly had no beginning. In fact, Paul wrote that Jesus embodied full-deity as His Father in Colossians : 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. (Col 1:19-20 NIV)

The theology of the Christadelphians is a mixture (or hybrid) of Gnosticism. I hope and pray that God may make this clear to you James. Because our salvation not only depending on our confession that Jesus is our Savior but who He really is.... God Eternal.

[GateKeeper]

I apologize for my extended absence, but I would like to 'discuss' this a bit further. From what I am reading, you are suggesting that I must view Jesus to be God, which I highly disagree with. We are to know both God and His son as love (God being love, and Jesus the manifestation of). Manifest is defined as reveal. Jesus revealed Gods truth to mankind, as Gods fullness dwelt in him (Not as Him). Jesus epitomized what it means to love. (In short it means losing our own lives for God and for those we share this world with).

Christianity today force feeds false creeds and doctrines to the unaware. Creeds like the Trinity fall into this category. Some who push this false doctrine do so deceitfully, while others truly believe (Not even able to truly understand the concept of all three being one, yet somehow divided into three, which would make the one true God into three (Or is it four) gods, being that all three parts of the totality of God are said to be equal.

I find it sad that you would even suggest that I attempt to wrap my mind around such lunacy and then try to tell me that I must believe in this nonsense to be saved.

Here's my view of God, the son, and the Holy Spirit (Just so you know). God is love, Jesus is Gods wisdom applied by the son of man, and the Spirit (Word) the essential essence of both.

We know that we know God by knowing love. Why? Because scripture tells us so. On that same note, we know Jesus by living as he lived (Through the Holy Spirit).

This is wisdom: To live by and through Gods Spirit (Gods wisdom applied by man). The truth is that we too become sons and daughters of God when we are born again of His Spirit.

Jesus was born of God, just as we become born of God. We are anointed with Gods Love by His (Spirit) only when we come to value God (Love) above our selves. We then willingly die to our selfish/carnal ways for God, so we might be lights to our fellow man in hope that they too will come to glorify our Father in Heaven.

In order to love God and neighbor (As Jesus loved us), we gotta die to our selfish, self serving ways, and live according to God's essence (Spirit).

Jesus also showed us that we are to become caretakers over the earth as opposed to rulers (The servant is not above His master after all). Far too many want to rule over others in life, which is why there is so much suffering in the world.

Jesus was certainly Gods son, but not God on earth. He did however reveal God to us, living His life in subjection to Gods will. Gods fullness of Spirit, or rather Gods essence dwelt in His mortal body fully (The Spirit, or rather the essence of God in him governed His life), just as Gods Spirit can dwell in our own, enabling [Us] to live as Jesus lived (With love for God, and love for our fellow man).


And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

We know both God and His son by becoming sons and daughters ourselves. In other words, we must be 'born again' of the Spirit (Love), allowing that Spirit to govern our lives.

Love is key; love dwells in us all waiting to be utilized, so [we] might know life in abundance.


GateKeeper

[pilgrim1411]

Jesus is God. And unless you believe that you will not be saved.

[nothead]

Originally Posted by pilgrim1411

Jesus is God. And unless you believe that you will not be saved.

Em, scripture? Or was this some kinda cultic belief of yourn?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by nothead

Em, scripture? Or was this some kinda cultic belief of yourn?

dang, where U been?

[alanmolstad]

No one has ever seen God.

We saw Jesus.....Jesus is ALL we will ever come to know about God.

Jesus is God wrapped in flesh.

All of what God is, is in Jesus.