It still bugs me

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Today we were visiting a man in the hospital. Two very nice LDS men came in and gave the patient the elements of the LDS sacrament.. That's where I start to have trouble.. It's not that these men weren't committed to their church it is the elements themselves.. Levin bread, a symbol of sin, being the subst i tute for the body of the Lord? Mere water being used as a subst i tute for His blood? Is this a problem for anyone else? IHS jim

as far as I know, you can NOT replace wine with water.

The water was turned into wine in the bible, not the other way around...

While I dont have any idea about the reason why a Mormon would try to replace the wine with water? I do know that he does this ridculous thing based only one some man's opinion, and not because its taught in the Bible...

[alanmolstad]

as far as the different bread goes?
That too is something that is just goofy and should not be copied.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

as far as I know, you can NOT replace wine with water.

It's D&C 27:2 that says we can.

For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.

[alanmolstad]

any idea where they get that in the Bible?

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

any idea where they get that in the Bible?

It's not in the Bible.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

It's not in the Bible.

Oh ok,
nuff said.

[MacG]

Originally Posted by Erundur

It's D&C 27:2 that says we can.

For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.

So you mean it is Jesus who says you can?

In that section he say also " 11 And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;" So Jesus is saying that Michael the Archangel is Adam? First time I heve seen this, just curious, Erundur.

Blessings

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by MacG

So you mean it is Jesus who says you can?

Correct.

In that section he say also " 11 And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;" So Jesus is saying that Michael the Archangel is Adam? First time I heve seen this, just curious, Erundur.

Correct again. That is what we believe.

[MacG]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Correct.


Correct again. That is what we believe.

I did not know that angles are considered spirit children of Mother and Father God...

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MacG

I did not know that angles are considered spirit children of Mother and Father God...

Well....are that "a cute" angle?

I once fell in love with a cute angle

[MacG]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Well....are that "a cute" angle?

I once fell in love with a cute angle

My reflex is to set you straight but you are right, I was obtuse and I think we have come full circle. Well that was about as easy as pi.

[MacG]

Let me rephrase in the form of a question:

I did not know that angels are considered spirit children of Mother and Father God...Is that what you believe, angels are spirit children of Mother and Father God?

[alanmolstad]

a mother and a Father God had some form of intercourse or union, and the result was angel children?

[MacG]

From above "In that section he say also " 11 And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;" So Jesus is saying that Michael the Archangel is Adam? First time I heve seen this, just curious, Erundur."

I was asking Erundur since Adam is the angel Michael became a man can the spirit children become angels first or are spirit children synonymous with angels? I was under the impression that the spirit children were only destined to be human not angels.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by MacG

Let me rephrase in the form of a question:

I did not know that angels are considered spirit children of Mother and Father God...Is that what you believe, angels are spirit children of Mother and Father God?

Mac--the LDS believe all spirits are Fathered by God the Father. That is Biblical:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

And those spirits are the offspring of God:

Acts 17:29----King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

The LDS also believe the angels are spirit offspring of God. Also, that all spirits have a mother in heaven.

[MacG]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Mac--the LDS believe all spirits are Fathered by God the Father. That is Biblical:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

And those spirits are the offspring of God:

Acts 17:29----King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

The LDS also believe the angels are spirit offspring of God. Also, that all spirits have a mother in heaven.

Thank you for the courtesy of your reply. Interesting I was not aware the TCJCLDS held that Angels could become exalted.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by MacG

Thank you for the courtesy of your reply. Interesting I was not aware the TCJCLDS held that Angels could become exalted.

Hi Mac.

The LDS believe the angels found in Revelation 12, which did not rebel-- are the spirits found within our bodies.

The scriptures have even Christ as an Angel:

Genesis 48:16---King James Version (KJV)

16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a mul***ude in the midst of the earth.