Biblical and historical reasons why Mitt Romney is not a Christian

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

They may not understand right from wrong but they still sin. And yet they sin and are saved without baptism.

Because they are not accountable. They are saved through the Atonement of Christ.

One cannot be a sinner unless they are accountable for sin.

Billy--you believe infants are sinners.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

The LDS do not believe infants are sinners.

So infants do not need the atonement of Christ is they are sinless?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Because they are not accountable. They are saved through the Atonement of Christ.

One cannot be a sinner unless they are accountable for sin.

A person who breaks a commandment is called what?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

What do you call a 7 year old who sins?

Depends on what his name is.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

One cannot be a sinner unless they are accountable for sin.

If a young child goes into a store and steals a candy bar that child broke a law but is not accountable for his crime.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Because they are not accountable. They are saved through the Atonement of Christ.

One cannot be a sinner unless they are accountable for sin.

Originally Posted by Billyray

A person who breaks a commandment is called what?

For one, Billyray--infants do not break commandments. They do not even know how, or what a commandment is.

Those who have reached accountability--sin.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

For one, Billyray--infants do not break commandments. They do not even know how, or what a commandment is.

Those who have reached accountability--sin.

Can a person including a child break a commandment and not know that they are breaking a commandment?

Is it a sin to break a commandment if you do not know that it is a commandment?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
One cannot be a sinner unless they are accountable for sin.

Originally Posted by Billyray

If a young child goes into a store and steals a candy bar that child broke a law but is not accountable for his crime.

But yet--you have infants, who have never stole anything---as sinners.

[Libby]

I think, per LDS theology, one can "transgress" without actually sinning. If children are not held accountable, then it would seem that Christ's atonement is covering their "transgressions".

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

But yet--you have infants, who have never stole anything---as sinners.

Romans tells us all have sinned.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

I think, per LDS theology, one can "transgress" without actually sinning.

If a child steals a candy bar is that breaking the law?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

If a child steals a candy bar is that breaking the law?

Of course.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
For one, Billyray--infants do not break commandments. They do not even know how, or what a commandment is.

Those who have reached accountability--sin.

Originally Posted by Billyray

Can a person including a child break a commandment and not know that they are breaking a commandment?

Again, Billyray--children, as infants, cannot break a commandment. They do not even know what a commandment is.

Is it a sin to break a commandment if you do not know that it is a commandment?

No, not in the case of infants. They have no concept of that idea whatsoever.

Again--can you give us an example of how an infant can sin--seeing that you believe they are sinners?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

Of course.

The same applies to a person who breaks a commandment. That is a sin. Accountability is a different issue.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Romans tells us all have sinned.

Then you would not mind sharing with us just how an infant can sin? What would be an example of their sins?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Again, Billyray--children, as infants, cannot break a commandment. They do not even know what a commandment is.

Can you break a commandment and not know that you are breaking a commandment?

The issue is that you are mixing up breaking a commandment and accountability. A child can break a commandment and thus commit a sin and yet may not be accountable because he did not know right from wrong.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The same applies to a person who breaks a commandment. That is a sin. Accountability is a different issue.

Sure, I understand that. Do you believe everyone, regardless of their mental abilities, are accountable for sin?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The same applies to a person who breaks a commandment. That is a sin. Accountability is a different issue.

Billyray--you have stated that infants are sinners. That is an accountability issue.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Can you break a commandment and not know that you are breaking a commandment?

The issue is that you are mixing up breaking a commandment and accountability. A child can break a commandment and thus commit a sin and yet may not be accountable because he did not know right from wrong.

Please share with us what commandment you believe that infants break.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Billyray--you have stated that infants are sinners. That is an accountability issue.

Yeah, I was going to mention that, as well. I understand being born with a "sin nature" (the potential to sin), but babies don't sin. I have seen some Christians claim that a baby crying, when it is hungry, is "sin", because it acts "selfishly"...which is perfectly ridiculous, IMO.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post

The LDS do not believe infants are sinners.

Originally Posted by Billyray

So infants do not need the atonement of Christ is they are sinless?

The LDS believe that infants are without condemnation because of the Atonement.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Billyray--you have stated that infants are sinners. That is an accountability issue.

Originally Posted by Libby

Yeah, I was going to mention that, as well. I understand being born with a "sin nature" (the potential to sin), but babies don't sin. I have seen some Christians claim that a baby crying, when it is hungry, is "sin", because it acts "selfishly"...which is perfectly ridiculous, IMO.

Libby--it's funny that you said that. I had a person relate that exact same thing to me--he described the baby kicking and crying, and attaching that action to sin.

Speak of the belief in absurdities...

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

Sure, I understand that. Do you believe everyone, regardless of their mental abilities, are accountable for sin?

My personal opinion is no.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Billyray--you have stated that infants are sinners. That is an accountability issue.

No it isn't. You can break a law and be a lawbreaker and yet not be held accountable.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Please share with us what commandment you believe that infants break.

I don't know. But I do know that we are all sinners per Romans 3.