Let's discuss it

[alanmolstad]

salvation is not by faith


salvation is not by works


salvation is not by any combination of faith and works....





so what is salvation by?
Salvation is by grace alone though faith, not by works.

[theway]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

salvation is not by faith


salvation is not by works


salvation is not by any combination of faith and works....



so what is salvation by?
Salvation is by grace alone though faith, not by works.

That's not what Walter Martin believed....
He said salvation was by grace alone through faith ALONE...

What exactly that meant is anybodies guess as most of his little sayings contradicted something else he had already said.

[Phoenix]

Maybe salvation is by anti-Mormonism?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Maybe salvation is by anti-Mormonism?

that might be true....

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Maybe salvation is by anti-Mormonism?

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

that might be true....

What isn't true is a salvation through a faith alone theology:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi Saxon.

I believe the remission of one's sins is an example of God's salvational grace:

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost is an example of God's salvational grace:

Acts 5:32---King James Version (KJV)
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

I believe God's salvational grace is God doing something for us we can't do for ourselves--that allows us to enter into His presence after death. The scriptures testify it's those who obey God that receive of that grace:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Originally Posted by Saxon

You should really explain what you believe grace to be because “salvational” grace mean nothing to me.

But the remission of sins or the Holy Ghost does mean something to you?

Are you saying you don't believe either is ***ociated with salvation--or is an extension of God's grace?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

But the remission of sins or the Holy Ghost does mean something to you?

Are you saying you don't believe either is ***ociated with salvation--or is an extension of God's grace?

The problem is, dberrie, you believe that a pedophile, Joe Smith, brings salvation, and that without him nobody gets to become a god.

[Saxon]

where does the term, "salvational” grace come From, not the Bible.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Saxon

where does the term, "salvational” grace come From, not the Bible.

dberrie, I believe, made that term up. I don't even think the Mormon cult uses it.

[Saxon]

There is no place in the Bible that there is a type of grace ever mentioned. Some have said "saving" grace but that is not in the Bible either. Now "salvational" grace. People need to find out what the term grace means and then they wouldn't need to add onto grace what isn't add on-able.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

What isn't true is a salvation through a faith alone theology:
9
James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

There is a justification by faith and a justification by works

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Apologette

The problem is, dberrie, you believe that a pedophile, Joe Smith, brings salvation, and that without him nobody gets to become a god.

I believe just what the Biblical record states:

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost is an example of God's salvational grace:

Acts 5:32---King James Version (KJV)
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

I believe God's salvational grace is God doing something for us we can't do for ourselves--that allows us to enter into His presence after death. The scriptures testify it's those who obey God that receive of that grace:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Why don't you?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

There is a justification by faith and a justification by works

But there is no justification through faith alone:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Why do the faith alone preach a gospel of salvation through a faith that is alone?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Saxon

There is no place in the Bible that there is a type of grace ever mentioned.

Then you don't believe the remission of sins, the Holy Ghost, or eternal salvation-- is God's grace?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 5:32---King James Version (KJV)
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

But there is no justification through faith alone:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Why do the faith alone preach a gospel of salvation through a faith that is alone?

there are two types of justification talked about in the bible....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcf1J6AJB9M
one by faith
one by works.

so if someone were to tell me that there was only one type of justification in the bible.....(Faith alone or works alone, does not matter), I would say that they were in error.

[alanmolstad]

so in other words, if someone were to tell me, "Hey there is a justification by faith only" I would correct them and say, "No there is a justification by works as well"

or if someone were to say, "Hey there is only a Justification by works" I would correct them and say, "No there is also a justification by FAITH as well"

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

There is a justification by faith and a justification by works

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

But there is no justification through faith alone:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Why do the faith alone preach a gospel of salvation through a faith that is alone?

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

there are two types of justification talked about in the bible....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcf1J6AJB9M
one by faith
one by works.

so if someone were to tell me that there was only one type of justification in the bible.....(Faith alone or works alone, does not matter), I would say that they were in error.

Again--there is no justification found in the Biblical text through a faith alone theology. Those of faith alone theology preach a salvation through faith alone. There is but one mention of "faith alone" (sola fide) found in the Biblical text:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

so in other words, if someone were to tell me, "Hey there is a justification by faith only" I would correct them and say, "No there is a justification by works as well"

And I would ask you--where does one find justification by "faith alone"?(sola fide)

[alanmolstad]

See post #191 above

[disciple]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

And I would ask you--where does one find justification by "faith alone"?(sola fide)

“There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?”
Simon answered and said, “I suppose the one whom he forgave more.”
And He said to him, “You have rightly judged.” Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head. You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil. Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”
Then He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”
And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”
Then He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”
Luke 7:41-50

So what would you say to this woman, be careful Jesus didn’t really mean what He said?
“Your faith has saved you”; meaning either the object of her faith, himself, who was the author of eternal salvation to her; or that she, through faith in him, had received the blessings of salvation, pardon, righteousness, and life from him. In either case she did nothing to merit that salvation. It is that faith and the leading of the Holy Spirit which will now produce work and obedience.

“We remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.”
1 Thes. 1:3

"For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love." Gal 5:5-6

[theway]

Originally Posted by disciple

“There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?”
Simon answered and said, “I suppose the one whom he forgave more.”
And He said to him, “You have rightly judged.” Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head. You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil. Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”
Then He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”
And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”u
Then He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”
Luke 7:41-50

So what would you say to this woman, be careful Jesus didn’t really mean what He said?
“Your faith has saved you”; meaning either the object of her faith, himself, who was the author of eternal salvation to her; or that she, through faith in him, had received the blessings of salvation, pardon, righteousness, and life from him. In either case she did nothing to merit that salvation. It is that faith and the leading of the Holy Spirit which will now produce work and obedience.

“We remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.”
1 Thes. 1:3

"For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love." Gal 5:5-6

You completely missed the point of these verses. If you go back and read them you will see that one person's faith involved action, the other person's faith had none, in fact Christ even pointed out that Simon didn't even do the required minimum that would be expected from the faithless to do.
One person's sins were forgiven... Which one do you guess that was?

[disciple]

Originally Posted by theway

You completely missed the point of these verses. If you go back and read them you will see that one person's faith involved action, the other person's faith had none, in fact Christ even pointed out that Simon didn't even do the required minimum that would be expected from the faithless to do.
One person's sins were forgiven... Which one do you guess that was?

What action caused this women to be saved? Would the same action have saved Simon?

[theway]

Originally Posted by disciple

What action caused this women to be saved? Would the same action have saved Simon?

Humility, repentance, and the act of seeking Him out.

Note that Christ did not say; "there's this sinful women in another village... Boom! I just forgave her."

However if you were looking for a true parable of how or by what criteria the Lord forgives, read Matt. 18:21-35

[Saxon]

Then you don't believe the remission of sins, the Holy Ghost, or eternal salvation-- is God's grace?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 5:32---King James Version (KJV)
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

No, I don’t believe that the remission of sins, the Holy Ghost, or eternal salvation IS God's grace. What I believe is that what you have pointed out as God’s grace are two aspects of eternal salvation, remission of sins and the Holy Ghost. Both are received at the moment God bestows eternal salvation upon a person.

The Bible says that it is by grace that you are saved, (See Ephesians 2:8) it never indicates that the remission of sins, the Holy Ghost, or eternal salvation ARE God's grace.

Give me a detailed post describing exactly what you believe God’s grace to be. I am sure that I will find it most enlightening.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

[disciple]

Originally Posted by theway

Humility, repentance, and the act of seeking Him out.

All based on faith and the belief that Jesus is willing and able to save.