Is God unable to create in kind?

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So do you believe that God created an "animal intelligence" (which the LDS god is incapable to create the human intelligence)or do you believe that the animal intelligence is self existent similar to the human intelligence?

I believe all intelligences are self-existent.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

I believe all intelligences are self-existent.

Where do these eternal animals go after they die? Do they go to different kingdoms based on their mortal works?

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

I believe all intelligences are self-existent.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

If we were self existent we would not need God, and we would in fact be gods.....and there is only THE God.....always has been and always will be THE ONLY GOD.

Sorry fig but you have no idea what you are talking about.

But we all know that.

Andy

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

That makes no sense whatsoever.

If we were self existent we would not need God, and we would in fact be gods

---Andy, this may be hard for you to grasp because it's probably at a 3rd-grade level, but what if a type of self-existent germ was discovered out in space? Just because it was self-existent, doesn't make it omnipotent or omniscient or omnivorous or whatever else has been programmed into you to believe about God. It would still JUST BE A GERM, with all the abilities and mental competence of a germ---not much. To that germ, YOU, a NON-self-existent but sentient, intelligent mammal, would be like a GOD.

That's enough of a refutation, I mean lesson, for you for today.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Just because it was self-existent, doesn't make it omnipotent or omniscient or omnivorous or whatever else has been programmed into you to believe about God. . .

How does it make you feel that your god did not really create you but rather just made a shell for you to live in?

[nrajeff]

(Just because it was self-existent, doesn't make it omnipotent or omniscient or omnivorous or whatever else has been programmed into you to believe about God)

Originally Posted by Billyray

How does it make you feel that your god did not really create you but rather just made a shell for you to live in?

---You committed yet another fallacy--the false premise that if God creates spirits from something other than total nothingness, that He has not created anything at all. I think DaVinci, Rembrandt, Mozart, and Frank Lloyd Wright--not to mention God--would disagree with that logic.

Besides, even if your premise were not a false one, it is an irrelevant response to the issue of whether or not God is self-existent. It has nothing to do with it, so why did you try to use it?

P.S.-- I'll take a God who creates something good anyday, and the fact that He created it from non-nothingness doesn't make me feel bad at all, as it shouldn't. Your attempt to insult isn't gonna work on people who know better, such as myself.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Billyray

How does it make you feel that your god did not really create you but rather just made a shell for you to live in?

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---You committed yet another fallacy--the false premise that if God creates spirits from something other than total nothingness, that He has not created anything at all.

Jeff, your post seems very disjointed and you seem to be quoting another poster later in your comments. Anyway to answer your first statement, you are completely false. You said that "He has not created anything at all." But if you simply read my post you will know that is not even what I ***erted. I did make note that the LDS god "made a shell for you to live in". But in all fairness your god did not really "create" this shell but a more accurate statement would be that he "organized" pre-existing material into a shell to house your pre-existing intelligence.

Originally Posted by nrajeff

Besides, even if your premise were not a false one, it is an irrelevant response to the issue of whether or not God is self-existent. It has nothing to do with it, so why did you try to use it?

I am not sure what you are talking about here Jeff. I think that you may be quoting a different poster.

Originally Posted by nrajeff

P.S.-- I'll take a God who creates something good anyday. . .

Even if it is a false god?

That is what people do all of the time Jeff, they make up a god in their mind , which in reality is a false god. If you feel good about following a false god then I can't stop you. But I certainly do not support your choice in good conscience.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Jeff, your post seems very disjointed and you seem to be quoting another poster later in your comments. Anyway to answer your first statement, you are completely false. You said that "He has not created anything at all." But if you simply read my post you will know that is not even what I ***erted. I did make note that the LDS god "made a shell for you to live in". But in all fairness your god did not really "create" this shell but a more accurate statement would be that he "organized" pre-existing material into a shell to house your pre-existing intelligence.

This "shell" is called a body. Use the scriptural term, please.

Your made up god is a hocus pocus conjuring god who makes his own rules whenever he likes, and never has to follow them if he doesn't like. So, how's that for some inflammatory rhetoric to match your own?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

This "shell" is called a body. Use the scriptural term, please.

The way that I see it the LDS god did not really create anything. Your intelligence or essence was not created by god, your physical body was not created by god, and your spiritual body was not created by god but rather organized using pre-existing material.

BTW can you tell us how god took your preexisting intelligence and made a spirit body? Did he incorporate you intelligence into his sperm to impregnated your heavenly mother after which she then went on to deliver you. Or do you believe that he just created a spirit body for your preexisting intelligence without the need for a heavenly mother. If this is the case what is the role for a heavenly mother at all?

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The way that I see it the LDS god did not really create anything. Your intelligence or essence was not created by god, your physical body was not created by god, and your spiritual body was not created by god but rather organized using pre-existing material.

Yep. Wonderful, isn't it? What God can do with unorganized materials. That is one reason why we worship Him.

On the other hand, you would say that your essence was created by God, and God built your essence to choose whatever he wanted you to choose, and so you have no free will.

Originally Posted by Billyray

BTW can you tell us how God took your preexisting intelligence and made a spirit body? Did he incorporate you intelligence into his sperm to impregnated your heavenly mother after which she then went on to deliver you. Or do you believe that he just created a spirit body for your preexisting intelligence without the need for a heavenly mother. If this is the case what is the role for a heavenly mother at all?

Thanks for capitalizing God. Oh I had to do it for you. Thank goodness for editing huh?

No, I can't tell you how God did it all. Can you tell me how God conjured up your personality? And why he built you to choose what you have chosen in your life?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Thanks for capitalizing God. Oh I had to do it for you. Thank goodness for editing huh?

I have done that on purpose but I think that you are the first to notice. When I am speaking about a false god I try to remember to NOT capitalize it. So when I am speaking about the LDS god I do not capitalize it because there is only one true God, which I capitalize of course.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I have done that on purpose but I think that you are the first to notice. When I am speaking about a false god I try to remember to NOT capitalize it. So when I am speaking about the LDS god I do not capitalize it because there is only one true God, which I capitalize of course.

Oh, we all notice. It is just an indication of how far you have fallen.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Oh, we all notice. It is just an indication of how far you have fallen.

Fig, there is only one true God. The LDS gods (polytheism) do not line up with what is taught in the Bible. I am sorry to give you that news but it is the truth. You can try to justify your position by attacking me personally, but that does not change the facts.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Fig, there is only one true God. The LDS gods (polytheism) do not line up with what is taught in the Bible. I am sorry to give you that news but it is the truth. You can try to justify your position by attacking me personally, but that does not change the facts.

It is your disrespect of God that I am attacking.

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

It is your disrespect of God that I am attacking.

Fig....you don't even know who God is....or did you forget you are mormon...and you have the gall to say he is disrespecting God?

If you really think he is disrespecting God....prove it.

Andy

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

Fig....you don't even know who God is....or did you forget you are mormon...and you have the gall to say he is disrespecting God?

If you really think he is disrespecting God....prove it.

Andy

lower case "g"

Do a little reading, Andy.

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

lower case "g"

Do a little reading, Andy.

Here is what you said.

It is your disrespect of God that I am attacking.

I do not see a lower case g for God.

And if you are referring to the mormon god, then the lower case g is appropriate.

If you don't think it is I would like to see you prove from the Bible that it isn't.

The mormon god is not found in the Bible except where ever it talks about false gods and that should be enough to get you to doing some serious thinking about your false prophet Smith and the anti-Christian church he started.

Andy

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

Here is what you said.


I do not see a lower case g for God.

And if you are referring to the mormon god, then the lower case g is appropriate.

See there you are too. Blaspheming and being irreverent. You cannot be Christian when you blaspheme the God of Christianity like that.

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

See there you are too. Blaspheming and being irreverent. You cannot be Christian when you blaspheme the God of Christianity like that.

Sorry you feel that way fig.

I am being just about irreverent as Elijah was to the false gods and prophets of Baal.

If you want to talk about irreverent, talk about how irreverent Smith was to the God of the Bible....it doesn't get any worse than what he did.

Smith couldn't of believed in God the way he ran God through the mud.

I know it has to be hard on you being in a cult and all.

We are praying for you.

Andy

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

Smith couldn't of believed in God the way he ran God through the mud.

More hot air on your part, Andy.

Joseph certainly argued against the sectarian notion of God as promoted by orthodox theologians of his time, if that's what you mean. But he had the highest adoration and reverence for God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

More hot air on your part, Andy.

Joseph certainly argued against the sectarian notion of God as promoted by orthodox theologians of his time, if that's what you mean. But he had the highest adoration and reverence for God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ.

Hmmmm. Making God in the likeness of men...going as far as to say God hasn't always been God, but some schmuck on an imaginary planet/sun called "Kolob" who earned his godhood merit badge at some kind of celestial jamboree is having "the highest adoration and reverence"???

Hardly. JS created an IDOL from his own imagination. The Mormon god ain't the biblical God, Fig.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Hmmmm. Making God in the likeness of men...going as far as to say God hasn't always been God, but some schmuck on an imaginary planet/sun called "Kolob" who earned his godhood merit badge at some kind of celestial jamboree...

---Yet YOU believed, FOR DECADES, that all that was not only plausible, but TRUE, FJD. What excuse do you have for being so stewpid as to believe all that stuff?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Yet YOU believed, FOR DECADES, that all that was not only plausible, but TRUE, FJD. What excuse do you have for being so stewpid as to believe all that stuff?

I believed that as well Jeff, but the fact that someone believes something does not make it true. I was clearly blinded by the enemy.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I believed that as well Jeff, but the fact that someone believes something does not make it true.

--Nor does the fact that you renounced it make UNtrue.

I was clearly blinded by the enemy.

---Sure, "clearly" ..

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Yet YOU believed, FOR DECADES, that all that was not only plausible, but TRUE, FJD. What excuse do you have for being so stewpid as to believe all that stuff?

LOL! I believed it because I didn't know any better, jeff...First of all, I read the Bible in bits and pieces LIKE YOU, and really didn't KNOW the Bible. Secondly, I was indoctrinated to MISREAD the Bible just like YOU until God bestowed GRACE upon me and enabled me to read the Holy Text IN CONTEXT.

What's YOUR excuse for still believing in JS IDOL??