Sandra Tanner Interview: "I came to Jesus through the Bible...and the Book of Mormon"

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by Libby

Well, so much for the "big tent", I guess.

Harry Reid is not the only Democrat in the LDS Church. I have seen political affiliations and even some of the upper eschalon are Independent or Democrat. Not many, but there are a few. You also have to realize, now that the LDS Church is a global church, there are many, much more liberal, outside of the U.S., as well.

I have many friends and some relatives that are Democrats. I have no problem with them and often enjoy political discussion with them. I just think Reid is vile human being. His treatment of others that he disagrees with is despicable.

[Libby]

Well, I don't know him, personally, only his politics (with which I, mostly, agree).

[RealFakeHair]

[QUOTE=Libby;159091]President Obama has been a very good President, IMO.



Libby, I think you should go lay down, you must have a fever or something? lol

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Libby

I have always known that you were conservative, as are most LDS (and conservative Christians), but I don't suppose you've ever known that I am a Democrat (moderate to liberal, depending on the issue). I am dead serious about Obama. Considering the opposition he has experienced in the House, I think he has done a good ***.

Even a lot of moderate Democrats are disgusted with the Saul Alinsky Communism he has used to destroy the USA. I listened, in person, to a Democrat U.S. Senator today, who said that Obama's release of 5 Taliban leaders, knowing they had murdered many innocent people, and knowing that some U.S. soldiers had died capturing them, and knowing that now they're free they will kill more U.S. soldiers and maybe do another 9/11 attack on innocent citizens, was so wrong it's incomprehensible that he did it.

At least one psychologist said last week that Obama's actions against the USA are so crazy, he may not be sane.

He just allowed Iraq to be overthrown, and as a result the price of gasoline is predicted to go a LOT higher than it currently is. When he took over the White House, gas was about $2 a gallon. My family now pays about $2000 PER YEAR more than it did before the savior took over the White House. Plus the cost of everything that uses fuel, or is transported by truck, has increased up to 100% doubled as well: Propane or gas for heating your home in the winter, or for cooking all year long. The cost of milk at the store is around $4 a gallon, just like gasoline. PLUS.......

[Phoenix]

1. IRS targets Obama’s enemies: The IRS targeted conservative and pro-Israel groups prior to the 2012 election. Questions are being raised about why this occurred, who ordered it, whether there was any White House involvement and whether there was an initial effort to hide who knew about the targeting and when.

2. Benghazi: This is actually three scandals in one:

The failure of administration to protect the Benghazi mission.
The changes made to the talking points in order to suggest the attack was motivated by an anti-Muslim video
The refusal of the White House to say what President Obama did the night of the attack

3. Watching the AP: The Justice Department performed a m***ive cull of ***ociated Press reporters’ phone records as part of a leak investigation.

4. Rosengate: The Justice Department suggested that Fox News reporter James Rosen is a criminal for reporting about cl***ified information and subsequently monitored his phones and emails.

5. Potential Holder perjury I: Attorney General Eric Holder told Congress he had never been ***ociated with “potential prosecution” of a journalist for perjury when in fact he signed the affidavit that termed Rosen a potential criminal.

6. The ATF “Fast and Furious” scheme: Allowed weapons from the U.S. to “walk” across the border into the hands of Mexican drug dealers. The ATF lost track of hundreds of firearms, many of which were used in crimes, including the December 2010 killing of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

7. Potential Holder Perjury II: Holder told Congress in May 2011 that he had just recently heard about the Fast and Furious gun walking scheme when there is evidence he may have known much earlier.

8. Sebelius demands payment: HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius solicited donations from companies HHS might regulate. The money would be used to help her sign up uninsured Americans for ObamaCare.

9. The Pigford scandal: An Agriculture Department effort that started as an attempt to compensate black farmers who had been discriminated against by the agency but evolved into a gravy train delivering several billion dollars in cash to thousands of additional minority and female farmers who probably didn’t face discrimination.

10. GSA gone wild: The General Services Administration in 2010 held an $823,000 training conference in Las Vegas, featuring a clown and a mind readers. Resulted in the resignation of the GSA administrator.

11. Veterans Affairs in Disney World: The agency wasted more than $6 million on two conferences in Orlando. An ***istant secretary was fired.

12. Sebelius violates the Hatch Act: A U.S. special counsel determined that Sebelius violated the Hatch Act when she made “extemporaneous partisan remarks” during a speech in her official capacity last year. During the remarks, Sebelius called for the election of the Democratic candidate for governor of North Carolina.

13. Solyndra: Republicans charged the Obama administration funded and promoted its poster boy for green energy despite warning signs the company was headed for bankruptcy. The administration also allegedly pressed Solyndra to delay layoff announcements until after the 2010 midterm elections.

14. AKA Lisa Jackson: Former EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson used the name “Richard Windsor” when corresponding by email with other government officials, drawing charges she was trying to evade scrutiny.

15. The New Black Panthers: The Justice Department was accused of using a racial double standard in failing to pursue a voter intimidation case against Black Panthers who appeared to be menacing voters at a polling place in 2008 in Philadelphia.

16. Waging war all by myself: Obama may have violated the Cons***ution and both the letter and the spirit of the War Powers Resolution by attacking Libya without Congressional approval.

17. Biden bullies the press: Vice President Biden’s office has repeatedly interfered with coverage, including forcing a reporter to wait in a closet, making a reporter delete photos, and editing pool reports.

18. AKPD not A-OK: The administration paid millions to the former firm of then-White House adviser David Axelrod, AKPD Message and Media, to promote p***age of Obamacare. Some questioned whether the firm was hired to help pay Axelrod $2 million AKPD owed him.

19. Sestak, we’ll take care of you: Former White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel used Bill Clinton as an intermediary to probe whether former Rep. Joe Sestak (D-Pa.) would accept a prominent, unpaid White House advisory position in exchange for dropping out of the 2010 primary against former Sen. Arlen Specter (D-Pa.).

20. I’ll p*** my own laws: Obama has repeatedly been accused of making end runs around Congress by deciding which laws to enforce, including the decision not to deport illegal immigrants who may have been allowed to stay in the United States had Congress p***ed the “Dream Act.”

21. The hacking of Sharyl Attkisson’s computer: It’s not clear who hacked the CBS reporter’s computer as she investigated the Benghazi scandal, but the Obama administration and its allies had both the motive and the means to do it.

22. An American Political Prisoner: The sudden decision to arrest Nakoula B***eley Nakoula on unrelated charges after protests in the Arab world over his anti-Muslim video is an extraordinarily suspicious coincidence. “We’re going to go out and we’re going to prosecute the person that made that video,” Hillary Clinton allegedly told the father of one of the ex-SEALs killed in Banghazi.

23. Get rid of inconvenient IGs: Corporation for National and Community Service Inspector General Gerald Walpin was fired in 2009 as he fought wasteful spending and investigated a friend of Obama’s, Sacramento Mayor and former NBA player Kevin Johnson. The White House says Walpin was incompetent.

24. Influence peddling: An investigation is underway of Alejandro Mayorkas, director of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, who has been nominated by Obama for the number two post at the Department of Homeland Security. Mayorkas may have used his position to unfairly obtain U.S. visas for foreign investors in company run by Hillary Clinton’s brother, Anthony Rodman.

(http://www.whitehousedossier.com/201...dals-counting/)

[Libby]

[QUOTE=RealFakeHair;159120]

Originally Posted by Libby

President Obama has been a very good President, IMO.



Libby, I think you should go lay down, you must have a fever or something? lol

I definitely need an aspirin after reading Phoenix's last two post. ;-)

[Libby]

Phoenix, I am not going to argue politics here. I do that on other boards and sometimes on Facebook, but like a lot of these religious "discussions" they are somewhat futile. It saddens me that the Republican Party has gone so far to the right. It's scares me, just like you seem to be frightened of Obama.

I think we all need to stop listening to so much media **** and try and here the truth, for a change. Some of the characterizations of the leaders on both sides are insulting and do nothing but divide this country (which is not good).

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Libby

It saddens me that the Republican Party has gone so far to the right.

You have been deceived, just as the liberals want the nation to be deceived. Study the history of both parties, from the JFK era to today, and you will see that the Democrats of that era, if you went back in time and listened to them, were what you'd today call right-wingers. BOTH parties have gotten demonstratively more LIBERAL over the past 60 years. If JFK were running for POTUS in the last Democratic primary against Obama, JFK's policies would have been branded staunchly conservative, and therefore there is no way that he would have beaten Obama. Would he have supported ANYTHING that today's DNC has been proposing and supporting? I doubt it. He'd be shocked by how far left his party has gone. He'd be among the first to demand the impeachment of Obama today, or of Bill Clinton in the 1990s, for any number of laws they have broken.

Meanwhile, all you have to do is go back to the Reagan years to see that today's GOP would not have liked Reagan--they would criticize Reagan's fiscal, national defense, and border enforcement policies as being too right-wing. They'd probably call him a TEA Party supporter and a loony for his views on traditional family values and his desire to put limits on going into national debt and to stop wasting so much money on stupid programs.

All this is proof that both parties have gone to the left, NOT the right. The only politicians today who share the conservatism of former generations, are the tiny minority that get mocked for being out of touch with the times.

It's scares me, just like you seem to be frightened of Obama.

Obama has wrecked this country. He has put it into more debt than all other presidents put together. He has committed treasonous acts. He has gotten good people killed, and he hasn't even apologized for it, let alone gone to jail for it. He promised that he would change this country in a huge way. The mistake that those who voted for him made, was to believe that those changes would be good ones instead of bad ones.

Even objective groups such as the CBO and GAO show that he has been terrible for this country.

[Libby]

Needless to say, we will disagree.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Libby

Needless to say, we will disagree.

Do we really disagree over whether Obama didn't lift a finger to save the Benghazi victims? He won't even let us know what he was doing at the time the consulate was being attacked by artillery. My guess: He was golfing or doing something even less moral than that at the time, and he will never admit to what he was doing when he should have been ordering immediate support and evac for those people. Either that, or it was his plan to let them die for some secret reason.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Do we really disagree over whether Obama didn't lift a finger to save the Benghazi victims? He won't even let us know what he was doing at the time the consulate was being attacked by artillery. My guess: He was golfing or doing something even less moral than that at the time, and he will never admit to what he was doing when he should have been ordering immediate support and evac for those people. Either that, or it was his plan to let them die for some secret reason.

Funny, how you can see throught Obama, and yet overlook Joseph Smith jr. over the top unmoral actions!

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Funny, how you can see throught Obama, and yet overlook Joseph Smith jr. over the top unmoral actions!

It doesn't seem funny to me. In the case of Obama, there is definitive evidence, while in the case of Joseph Smith, there is mostly questionable hearsay against him, like an anti-Bible person could dredge up to slander Bible prophets or even Jesus.

That is the difference, as I see it: Where people have bad-mouthed certain LDS or Bible people, the source is questionable and even controverted by other sources, while in the case of Obama, the evidence is solid, and even his defenders tend to recognize that and just say "So what?" in reply.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I doesn't seem funny to me. In the case of Obama, there is definitive evidence, while in the case of Joseph Smith, there is mostly questionable hearsay against him, like an anti-Bible person could dredge up to slander Bible prophets or even Jesus.

That is the difference, as I see it: Where people have bad-mouthed certain LDS or Bible people, the source is questionable and even controverted by other sources, while in the case of Obama, the evidence is solid, and even his defenders tend to recognize that and just say "So what?" in reply.

Let's take one so called hearsay that was proved against good ol jo.
"The noted Mormon apologist Hugh Nibley published a book in which this statement appeared: "...if this court record is authentic it is the most ****ing evidence in existence against Joseph Smith." (The Myth Makers, 1961, page 142) On the same page we read that such a court record would be "the most devastating **** to Smith ever delivered." Because he could see the serious implications of the matter, Dr. Nibley tried in every way possible to destroy the idea that the court record was an authentic document

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I doesn't seem funny to me. In the case of Obama, there is definitive evidence, while in the case of Joseph Smith, there is mostly questionable hearsay against him, like an anti-Bible person could dredge up to slander Bible prophets or even Jesus.

That is the difference, as I see it: Where people have bad-mouthed certain LDS or Bible people, the source is questionable and even controverted by other sources, while in the case of Obama, the evidence is solid, and even his defenders tend to recognize that and just say "So what?" in reply.

Actually, there is solid evidence that Joseph did most of the things that people claim. Even your own LDS scholars admit to most of it. They have even written books, like "Rough Stone Rolling".

As for Obama, just the opposite. The Fox News crowd are some of the least informed people in America, and people who hate Obama are going to eat it up, no matter how untrue it is.

This is why I rarely discuss politics, especially, with conservatives, because it is made up, mostly, of a bunch of mud-slinging propaganda.

Okay, I'm done!

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Let's take one so called hearsay that was proved against good ol jo.
"The noted Mormon apologist Hugh Nibley published a book in which this statement appeared: "...if this court record is authentic it is the most ****ing evidence in existence against Joseph Smith." (The Myth Makers, 1961, page 142) On the same page we read that such a court record would be "the most devastating **** to Smith ever delivered." Because he could see the serious implications of the matter, Dr. Nibley tried in every way possible to destroy the idea that the court record was an authentic document

He cited all the evidence that was available at the time, and apparently some evidence was discovered after that. I agree with Nibley's initial ***essment, by the way: This court trial IS indeed evidence of the worst documentable thing that that Joseph Smith did.

Which puts Smith in a pretty good light. It's like if you were slandering me with various accusations of atrocities, PLUS the claim that I once was convicted of misdemeanor loitering, or littering. And then one of my friends said that if it ever was proven that I was in fact convicted of that misdemeanor, it would be the most ****ing evidence against me.

I'd be happy with that.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

He cited all the evidence that was available at the time, and apparently some evidence was discovered after that. I agree with Nibley's initial ***essment, by the way: This court trial IS indeed evidence of the worst documentable thing that that Joseph Smith did.

Which puts Smith in a pretty good light. It's like if you were slandering me with various accusations of atrocities, PLUS the claim that I once was convicted of misdemeanor loitering, or littering. And then one of my friends said that if it ever was proven that I was in fact convicted of that misdemeanor, it would be the most ****ing evidence against me.

I'd be happy with that.

Yeah, because I think his polygamy with young girls was the most ****able thing he did. That was seriously awful, IMHO.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Libby

Actually, there is solid evidence that Joseph did most of the things that people claim.

That is not true. Let's take, for example, the claim that he carried a Jupiter talisman with him everywhere he went, he was never without it, and he even died with it, and it was found among the belongings on his person after he died.

There is NO solid evidence that this claim is true. I think even Quinn has been forced to admit that.

As for Obama, just the opposite. The Fox News crowd are some of the least informed people in America, and people who hate Obama are going to eat it up, no matter how untrue it is.

This is interesting: You believe every bad thing said about Smith, and you deny every bad thing said about Obama.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

That is not true. Let's take, for example, the claim that he carried a Jupiter talisman with him everywhere he went, he was never without it, and he even died with it, and it was found among the belongings on his person after he died.

There is NO solid evidence that this claim is true. I think even Quinn has been forced to admit that.

I really could care less if he wore a talisman or dabbled in the occult. Those are not, by far, his worst offenses (as I mentioned).

This is interesting: You believe every bad thing said about Smith, and you deny every bad thing said about Obama.

Nope, I've seen some claims from antis that I knew were wrong and I've even spoken against them....like the whole idea of literal/physical procreation in the CK. I know that is not how it's interpreted or viewed by most LDS.

[Libby]

I get accused of pandering, when I agree with or defend LDS...remember?

[Libby]

Btw, Phoenix, have you seen the news today?!

Benghazi suspects have been apprehended! Obama always gets his man! ;-)

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Libby

Btw, Phoenix, have you seen the news today?!

Benghazi suspects have been apprehended! Obama always gets his man! ;-)

Why did you go and make me sick?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

He cited all the evidence that was available at the time, and apparently some evidence was discovered after that. I agree with Nibley's initial ***essment, by the way: This court trial IS indeed evidence of the worst documentable thing that that Joseph Smith did.

Which puts Smith in a pretty good light. It's like if you were slandering me with various accusations of atrocities, PLUS the claim that I once was convicted of misdemeanor loitering, or littering. And then one of my friends said that if it ever was proven that I was in fact convicted of that misdemeanor, it would be the most ****ing evidence against me.

I'd be happy with that.

Okay, lets see, Joseph Smith jr. Went to court why?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Why did you go and make me sick?

You should be happy!

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Libby

I really could care less if he wore a talisman or dabbled in the occult.

But you said that "there is solid evidence that Joseph did most of the things that people claim."
I just mentioned one of those claims, and suggested that there is no solid evidence to support it (actually, there is solid evidence that refutes it) and now you're turning into Hillary when questioned about Benghazi ("What difference does it make?")

Those are not, by far, his worst offenses (as I mentioned).

Didn't you agree with the Nibley statement that if evidence was ever found of Smith being tried and convicted of "gl***-looking" it would be the most ****ing evidence against him?

Nope, I've seen some claims from antis that I knew were wrong and I've even spoken against them....like the whole idea of literal/physical procreation in the CK. I know that is not how it's interpreted or viewed by most LDS.

Thanks for that.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

But you said that "there is solid evidence that Joseph did most of the things that people claim."
I just mentioned one of those claims, and suggested that there is no solid evidence to support it (actually, there is solid evidence that refutes it) and now you're turning into Hillary when questioned about Benghazi ("What difference does it make?")


Didn't you agree with the Nibley statement that if evidence was ever found of Smith being tried and convicted of "gl***-looking" it would be the most ****ing evidence against him?



Thanks for that.

Bait and switch. No Christian here mentions, Jupiter talisman of Joseph Smith jr. that I know of, Now back to the looking gl***?