The Unpardonable Sin (and why I don't believe Anti-LDS Inc.)

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Because you are trying to understand what LDS believe based on concepts the LDS don't believe - like theway has pointed out.

If you can a yes or no answer will do. Can a TBM lose their exaltation once that have it?

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

If you can a yes or no answer will do. Can a TBM lose their exaltation once that have it?

Why do you expect a yes or no will suffice when you are trying to understand what LDS believe based on concepts the LDS don't believe?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Why do you expect a yes or no will suffice when you are trying to understand what LDS believe based on concepts the LDS don't believe?

For some reason I expect this kind of answer. Oh by the way why can't you give a yes or no? I am not trying to trap you, I do realize not all questions come with a yes or no, but for the life of me I can't reason why you are hesitant to give a simple yes or no, is there a reason for your none answer?

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

For some reason I expect this kind of answer. Oh by the way why can't you give a yes or no? I am not trying to trap you, I do realize not all questions come with a yes or no, but for the life of me I can't reason why you are hesitant to give a simple yes or no, is there a reason for your none answer?

nrajeff gave a pretty good reason why.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

nrajeff gave a pretty good reason why.

If you agree with him then you also prove you know little about the Bible.. You can read my answer to him to see what the Bible teaches as to when eternal live comes to a believer.. Just because the LDS church denies truth doesn't change truth into a lie.. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

If you can a yes or no answer will do. Can a TBM lose their exaltation once that have it?

You need to learn a few things about LDS soteriology before your question can be answered.
LDS don't believe in OBIS or OSAS while the person is in mortality, generally speaking. Eternal life is a FUTURE event, which person is given on Judgment day, which occurs after Resurrection Day.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

You need to learn a few things about LDS soteriology before your question can be answered.
LDS don't believe in OBIS or OSAS while the person is in mortality, generally speaking. Eternal life is a FUTURE event, which person is given on Judgment day, which occurs after Resurrection Day.

Thank you for trying a yes or no, well I do understand the mortal vs the immortal to exaltation or saved.
Your answer is of course at anytime a TBM can slip out of his exaltation slippers. What I mean is he can be walking towards his reward and at the last moment lose it all.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Thank you for trying a yes or no, well I do understand the mortal vs the immortal to exaltation or saved.

Do you understand the concept of the path that leads to eternal life?

Your answer is of course at anytime a TBM can slip out of his exaltation slippers.

You are of course wrong, if you're saying that LDS believe that a person can lose his salvation. You can't lose something that hasn't been given to you yet.

What I mean is he can be walking towards his reward and at the last moment lose it all.

Well done. Yes, the Bible doctrine that it's possible to start down the path that LEADS to eternal life, but stray OFF that path and end up at some other destination--is also an LDS doctrine.

Do you have a problem with that Biblical doctrine?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Do you understand the concept of the path that leads to eternal life?


You are of course wrong, if you're saying that LDS believe that a person can lose his salvation. You can't lose something that hasn't been given to you yet.


Well done. Yes, the Bible doctrine that it's possible to start down the path that LEADS to eternal life, but stray OFF that path and end up at some other destination--is also an LDS doctrine.
Do you have a problem with that Biblical doctrine?

There in lies the difference between LDSinc. and The Christian belief of of Once saved always saved, as I believe.
I believe the Grace of Jesus Christ through His blood over came what the Law could not do. It gives the believe eternal security in Christ Jesus, or else why have the blood of Christ at all? Just keep the old Law and the sarifice altar fires buring.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

There in lies the difference between LDSinc. and The Christian belief of of Once saved always saved, as I believe.

And OSAS is a dogma of Calvinism, and Calvinism is a small subset of Christianity. So you can get away with calling OSAS a Christian belief, as long as you are willing to also call Catholic Transubstantiation or Mary as a Coredemptrix, Christian beliefs.

Are you willing to do that?

I believe the Grace of Jesus Christ through His blood over came what the Law could not do. It gives the believe eternal security in Christ Jesus, or else why have the blood of Christ at all? Just keep the old Law and the sarifice altar fires buring.

You are on an irrelevant tangent. The issue is whether all who start on the path that leads to eternal life have some unconditional guarantee that they will stay on it to its destination. If the correct answer is "no" (which it is), then OSAS has one huge strike against it being true.

[theway]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

There in lies the difference between LDSinc. and The Christian belief of of Once saved always saved, as I believe.
I believe the Grace of Jesus Christ through His blood over came what the Law could not do. It gives the believe eternal security in Christ Jesus, or else why have the blood of Christ at all? Just keep the old Law and the sarifice altar fires buring.

So you are saying that if you went out and killed someone, that you know you would have nothing to worry about with God.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by theway

So you are saying that if you went out and killed someone, that you know you would have nothing to worry about with God.

I didn't say it was fair that I could kill someone or more than one person and still be Saved, but I didn't make the rule.
We humans seem to be quite able to condemn a murder to eternal exile, but excuse a little white lie, but to God a sin is a sin.
PS to the person I killed, I wonder if they were so willingly to forgive? Oh by the way it is only a hypothetical question, I haven killed anyone yet.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

I didn't say it was fair that I could kill someone or more than one person and still be Saved, but I didn't make the rule.
We humans seem to be quite able to condemn a murder to eternal exile, but excuse a little white lie, but to God a sin is a sin.
PS to the person I killed, I wonder if they were so willingly to forgive? Oh by the way it is only a hypothetical question, I haven killed anyone yet.

By what Jesus taught us I am a murderer.. I have been angry more than once without just cause.. According to our Lord that is murder.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

You need to learn a few things about LDS soteriology before your question can be answered.
LDS don't believe in OBIS or OSAS while the person is in mortality, generally speaking. Eternal life is a FUTURE event, which person is given on Judgment day, which occurs after Resurrection Day.

This must be another Biblical doctrine that the LDS have decided to either ignore or deny.. But what could the Bible say about this? Lets look..

John 11:25-26
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

How is it that believers are promised that they will never die? All men die.. And yet there is Jesus say that all who believe in His will never die? Why is it that the Holy Spirit teaches us through the Apostle John that those that believe have eternal life? Did Jesus really teach that all who believe in Him would live in the flesh till He comes? He must have been teaching a different kind of life to teach that we who believe would never die? If we aren't alive physically we don't have to be spiritually dead. That tell us that those live and believe in Him will never die, because that have eternal life. NOT LATER BUT WHILE THEY LIVE.. So why is it you tell us that the LDS church denies these truths and yet insist that the LDS are believers in the Bible? IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Here is the answer:

If you read the Mat 12 verse that is at the heart of this issue what you learn is that the sin that is not forgiven is to speak against the Holy Spirit.
The example given us was that some Jews said that Jesus cast out demons by the power of the devil.

So we have to look at this issue with the understanding that the unforgivable sin had something to do with the ability of a person to believe Jesus had the authority to do his works from God and not from the devil.

But it is also interesting to remember that the Jews that were the target of the unforgivable sin teaching did not actually bring up the name of the Holy Spirit....nor would I expect them to even know about the Holy Spirit.

So the sin that is always unforgiving seems to cover a bunch of stuff, and we are not talking about one single type of list-able sin, but rather an "at***ude that rejects Jesus's authority"



So we dont have to worry that you might have said the wrong wording one time and broken the unforgivable sin.
and you dont have to worry that you might have broken this sin....for the truth is, the people that are truly guilty never worry about it.....Thats why the sin is never dealt with,,,never repented of.



So the person that claims that the "Unforgivable sin" is talking about many types of things is correct.