Satan and the Mormon Temple "Secret" Rites! Don't Get Involved!

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Interesting that you captured my quote in your quote:

This (above) was the last part of my quote.

All you have to do is hit "reply with quote" and it will capture my quote. It break of the quote of another and insert what you want, highlight what you want to refer to and then hit the icon above that is like the little quote bubble.

We don't go around condemning others as you do. We believing other churches have parts of the truth, but the gospel of Jesus Christ teaches the fullness of the truth. If you want to refer to what God said to Joseph Smith-well, that is what God said.

Do I want to throw out the baby with the bath water for one scripture? No, I see that these verses all fit together into one great truth--there is no need to throw it out.

Oh, so you do believe that some sins are different than others to God when you state: . James argues against that. Do you disagree with him?

I believe the sin of unbelief will never be forgiven. It is the sin against the Holy Spirit. That is denying the Biblical Gospel. Mull over that for a while!

Oh, you're lying again Julie about not attacking Christians. Go ahead and denounce these disgusting statements by your great prophets:

http://www.mrm.org/we-never-criticize (PS: she won't denounce these gross attacks on Christians)

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

I believe the sin of unbelief will never be forgiven. It is the sin against the Holy Spirit. That is denying the Biblical Gospel. Mull over that for a while!

Oh, you're lying again Julie about not attacking Christians. Go ahead and denounce these disgusting statements by your great prophets:

http://www.mrm.org/we-never-criticize (PS: she won't denounce these gross attacks on Christians)

I looked thought it the site you gave me. You basically think we are attacking because we explain of the apostasy--that was also discussed in the New Testament?

Please, go through it, and just once---pick out one Christian's person's name in that whole site that any one specifically refers to. See if there is any attack of any Christian by name. I did not look at so closely, so there may be one. This will be a challenge for you.

Okay, the sin of perdition is the only one that will never be forgiven. So, what is this greater punishment that you then refer to?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Did the works of the student help him tap into the grace of his parents? Would the child realize the grace of his parents if he choose to not practice?

You didn't answer my question. Here it is again for you.

Do works contribute for salvation?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You didn't answer my question. Here it is again for you.

Do works contribute for salvation?

I did answer your question with another question. Answer the one and you will answer your own.

Here, I will put it to you another one, can someone experience God's grace without works?

I know you have given the thief example----but as we discussed previously, the thief (actually, do you know I learned that the proper translation is "rebel" not thief---it was rebels who were hung on the cross like that---rebels against the state)--basically did DO something.

But interestingly, I keep getting different responses from the "christians' here on this site.

James seems to think that there is not "greater" ****ation, that it is all the same.

You seem to think it has to do with punishment level.

Apologette seems to agree with you, but then acknowledges that even the murderers, etc. will be better off than those who are the sons of perdition.

So, if there is only one ****ation as James thinks and there is different punishment levels as you and Apologette think, and only the sons of perdition won't be forgiven.....

How exactly do you see things IF you don't believe in different degrees of glory because with different degrees of glory, you would have different levels of punishment, but only one outer darkness for the sons of perdition.

Please, do explain.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Here, I will put it to you another one, can someone experience God's grace without works?

Absolutely.

Now perhaps you can answer my question. Do works contribute for LDS salvation?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Absolutely.

Now perhaps you can answer my question. Do works contribute for LDS salvation?

So, who exactly can experience God's grace and do nothing?

I know you keep asking this question to try to set a trap---but I think it deserves deeper discussion.

Hey, and you didn't address the whole greater ****ation thing. Did you see what I asked you?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, who exactly can experience God's grace and do nothing?

We all do because grace is not earned by our works.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

We all do because grace is not earned by our works.

Okay, so---you believe that you can experience God's grace by doing nothing? No repentance? No faith? Nothing?

You still have ignored the question I asked above about "greater ****ation" because by all accounts, it appears you believe in degrees of glory by what you and Apologette state.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Okay, so---you believe that you can experience God's grace by doing nothing? No repentance? No faith? Nothing?

Absolutely. For some reason Mormons believe that they earn grace by their works. That is exactly what you believe.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Absolutely. For some reason Mormons believe that they earn grace by their works. That is exactly what you believe.

Oh, okay---who exactly does this apply to---who can have God's grace without faith and without repentance? I mean, I believe there is a group that qualifies for this. What group do you believe it is?

No, I don't think I "earn" grace---but I believe God does give qualifications of who he extends his grace to. Don't you agree?

Still ignoring the other question I can see. Oh well.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

No, I don't think I "earn" grace---but I believe God does give qualifications of who he extends his grace to. Don't you agree?

Qualifications = works per LDS thinking. You work to earn grace. But the Bible clearly teaches that this is false.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Interesting that you captured my quote in your quote:

This (above) was the last part of my quote.

All you have to do is hit "reply with quote" and it will capture my quote. It break of the quote of another and insert what you want, highlight what you want to refer to and then hit the icon above that is like the little quote bubble.

We don't go around condemning others as you do. We believing other churches have parts of the truth, but the gospel of Jesus Christ teaches the fullness of the truth. If you want to refer to what God said to Joseph Smith-well, that is what God said.

Do I want to throw out the baby with the bath water for one scripture? No, I see that these verses all fit together into one great truth--there is no need to throw it out.

Oh, so you do believe that some sins are different than others to God when you state: . James argues against that. Do you disagree with him?

So are you saying that my church only has "part of the truth?" We teach the gospel of Jesus Christ, straight from God's Word, The Bible. What Mormonism is, is another gospel which Paul warned about. The Bible never taught Temple marriage, that doing good works was what was necessary for salvation. It doesn't teach that God was once a man nor that man if he lived all the laws and ordinances of Mormonism would become a god and be able to create their own worlds. It doesn't teach about pre-existence either since scriptures says, "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him" (Zech. 12:1). The Bible teaches that God is spirit, not a man of flesh and bone (I am speaking of God the Father here). The Bible teaches that, "How be it the most high dwelleth not in temples made with hands sayeth the prophet.....Acts 7:48. Acts. 17:24. It is God's grace that saves us, that is what is taught in His word. Many, many differences in our religions isn't there so who are we to believe?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Oh, okay---who exactly does this apply to---who can have God's grace without faith and without repentance?

The thief on the cross didn't do works in order to earn God's grace.

Let's start with defining the term "grace".

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Qualifications = works per LDS thinking. You work to earn grace. But the Bible clearly teaches that this is false.

No---there are babies who receive God's grace with doing nothing.

But I do think God expects us to have faith, be baptized, follow him. You disagree?

But, I guess to a certain, extent--and this gets back to the earlier question. Because I believe in the degrees of glory, to everyone OTHER than the sons of perdition, there will be some grace extended. Do you agree?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by neverending

So are you saying that my church only has "part of the truth?" We teach the gospel of Jesus Christ, straight from God's Word, The Bible. What Mormonism is, is another gospel which Paul warned about. The Bible never taught Temple marriage, that doing good works was what was necessary for salvation. It doesn't teach that God was once a man nor that man if he lived all the laws and ordinances of Mormonism would become a god and be able to create their own worlds. It doesn't teach about pre-existence either since scriptures says, "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him" (Zech. 12:1). The Bible teaches that God is spirit, not a man of flesh and bone (I am speaking of God the Father here). The Bible teaches that, "How be it the most high dwelleth not in temples made with hands sayeth the prophet.....Acts 7:48. Acts. 17:24. It is God's grace that saves us, that is what is taught in His word. Many, many differences in our religions isn't there so who are we to believe?

Yes, I am saying that your church does not have the fullness of the truth ---if you did, I would belong to your church. Do you believe every church has all the truth? What about Catholics?


I disagree that Mormonism is "another gospel"--I believe it is the gospel.

Ummm, God was a man---this is always the most interesting argument to me that a "christian' makes---I mean, do you not think Jesus Christ was a man?

Whenever a "christian' argues that God is a spirit and NOT a man, I think--hey--so you see this clear difference between God the Father and Jesus Christ---but I don't. If Christ was born, had a body, died, resurrected and was exalted and IS God, we can say the exact same thing for the Father---as because Christ teaches us--they are the same.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

No---there are babies who receive God's grace with doing nothing.

So babies receive God's grace "with doing nothing" but others have to work for grace. Is this a fair ***essment of what you believe?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

But I do think God expects us to have faith, be baptized, follow him. You disagree?

Do you believe that God believes that anyone will perfectly obey the commandments?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So babies receive God's grace "with doing nothing" but others have to work for grace. Is this a fair ***essment of what you believe?

No, because as I said earlier, all but the sons of perdition will receive God's grace in some form---but there will be those who get a more "severe punishment"---I think those were your words.

Do you believe this?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Do you believe that God believes that anyone will perfectly obey the commandments?

Nope, no one but the Son of God will.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Nope, no one but the Son of God will.

So God "expects" that no one will truly obey all of his commandments.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So God "expects" that no one will truly obey all of his commandments.

Nope, he provides a way for us to "truly obey" him. It is called repentance.

But, you once again are ignoring my question/reply.

No, because as I said earlier, all but the sons of perdition will receive God's grace in some form---but there will be those who get a more "severe punishment"---I think those were your words.

Do you believe this?

I will wait to respond again when you answer this---but you are free to ask more questions as well, once you answer as well.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Nope, he provides a way for us to "truly obey" him. It is called repentance.

What do you mean "nope". Does God "expect" anyone to follow all of his commandments?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Nope, he provides a way for us to "truly obey" him. It is called repentance.

But nobody "truly obeys" God. You should know that. This is taught in the Bible--yet you seem to gloss over these sections I guess.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

But nobody "truly obeys" God. You should know that. This is taught in the Bible--yet you seem to gloss over these sections I guess.

Billyray, as noted, I will wait for you to answer my question before I continue.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

No, because as I said earlier, all but the sons of perdition will receive God's grace in some form---but there will be those who get a more "severe punishment"---I think those were your words.

Do you believe this?

Your understanding of the afterlife is not consistent with what the Bible teaches so the only way I can answer your question is that what you believe is false. If you want to define terms then we can go from there.