Evolution does not stand up to biblical scrutiny

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by disciple

On the fourth creation day, the Sun, Moon, and stars were made..

are you sure it says the sun and moon were made on the 4th day?

you better go check the text before you answer...

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

are you sure it says the sun and moon were made on the 4th day?

you better go check the text before you answer...

"Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. So the evening and the morning were the fourth day." Gen 1:16-19

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by disciple

"Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. So the evening and the morning were the fourth day." Gen 1:16-19

oh I know there was light,,,,and we see that the topic of the 4th day deals with the amount of light, (greater and lesser)...
But i was just asking if the Bible says that the "sun" was made on the 4th day?


check the text ....

[alanmolstad]

so what Im saying is this:

That the Bible tells us when the sun was created,and its not on the 4thday.

the one single correct Bible word for all the stars in the night sky, and all the other things in outer space (such a planets,and blackholes, and dark matter, and all the things I dont even know the name for) , all that "space stuff' is correctly called by the one single Bible word of - "heavens"

The term "Heavens" can be used correctly to talk about all that space stuff.

and then when does the Bible teach that God made all this "Space stuff" like our sun?...."In the beginning"!!!!!!




So this means that right at the very startof the creation story we find God busy creating the source for all the light we will be reading about in the Genesis story!

there is no need to invent a "source-less light"....for the source is already made at Genesis 1:1and its still there inthe sky today!

[alanmolstad]

"So Alan what is it talking about on the 4th day then?"


Im glad you asked that.

The answer is, "Exactly what it says its talking about....'light" and the amount of light seen on the earth.

Some greater, some lesser....

so the "sun" is not said to be created on the 4th day at all...and that fits with Gen 1:1 when the heavens (including the stars like our sun) were created in the beginning.
But what are reading about on the 4th day is a changing in the AMOUNTS of light seen...

Thats why the Bible makes use of the term "Greater" and "Lesser" for they are terms that talk about the AMOUNT of light seen, not their source!!!!!!!!!

(Did everybody catch that?...Greater and lesser are terms that talk about "amounts" of light)

Their source is already created on Day 1....but on day 4 we clearly have a change in the AMOUNTS seen.




Now you can ask me"why ?.......I have lots to say about that too...








Basically what im teaching here is just looking at the text as it is written, and saying,"Amen"....
i dont feel the need to add to the text at all.

If the Bible says that the first things God made in the beginning were the "Heavens" i say, "Amen"...
I dont need to twist things around so that it has to teach something that it clearly does not say in black and white.

The same thing is true for the events of the 4th day too!
The bible teaches us that on the 4th day we see changes on the amount of light seen...
greater and lesser" are terms that talk about the amount of light.

I dont need to twist anything else into the 4th day.

If the Bible tells me that greater and lesser light was seen, i say "Amen"....


Why cant we just believe the Bible as written?

[jude1:3]

The Fruits of Evolution are:


* Atheism

* Social Darwinism

* Racism

* Eugenics

* No Moral Absolutes

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

oh I know there was light,,,,and we see that the topic of the 4th day deals with the amount of light, (greater and lesser)...
But i was just asking if the Bible says that the "sun" was made on the 4th day?


check the text ....

Alan, you better check the text. "Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night"
Every reputable commentary concludes that these "two" lights are the sun and the moon, where did you get the idea that these "two" lights are not the sun and the moon. Who taught you that? Or is that your own conclusion?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by disciple

Alan, you better check the text. "Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night"
Every reputable commentary concludes that these "two" lights are the sun and the moon, where did you get the idea that these "two" lights are not the sun and the moon. Who taught you that? Or is that your own conclusion?

no...check to see if the text actually says that the "sun" was made then...

Check is the text actually says that the "moon' was made then.


Oh.....and as for the stars, many people believe that the Bible teaches that the stars were made on the 4th day....do you see that in your Bible?

If you do, then you better check the King James and look for the hints about the words that are added to the Text in that verse by the editors of other bibles.....the King James bible will show you the added words.


Imjust suggesting you read the Bible, not add any words to the text, and believe what you read and not need to appeal to commentary.


I mean if the Bible were written so that just to understand it you needed to wait for a commentary to tell you what it says, you are out of luck then if you dont got a handy commentary around I guess......


Butif the bible were written in such a way as to just read it,stick to the words you see there, and you can believe it as its written, then all people in every place and in every time can learn from the Bible....even if they never have a "commentary" to set them straight on some teaching that might not be in the Bible as it appears, but were just stuff the commentary wanted you to believe 'should" have been in the Bible had they been in charge of making it....




So......what so wrong with believing the Bible as its written?

Why cant we believe the writer of the Genesis story used the correct words?

Why cant 'light" be talking about "light"?

[jude1:3]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

no...check to see if the text actually says that the "sun" was made then...

Check is the text actually says that the "moon' was made then.


Oh.....and as for the stars, many people believe that the Bible teaches that the stars were made on the 4th day....do you see that in your Bible?

If you do, then you better check the King James and look for the hints about the words that are added to the Text in that verse by the editors of other bibles.....the King James bible will show you the added words.


Imjust suggesting you read the Bible, not add any words to the text, and believe what you read and not need to appeal to commentary.


I mean if the Bible were written so that just to understand it you needed to wait for a commentary to tell you what it says, you are out of luck then if you dont got a handy commentary around I guess......


Butif the bible were written in such a way as to just read it,stick to the words you see there, and you can believe it as its written, then all people in every place and in every time can learn from the Bible....even if they never have a "commentary" to set them straight on some teaching that might not be in the Bible as it appears, but were just stuff the commentary wanted you to believe 'should" have been in the Bible had they been in charge of making it....




So......what so wrong with believing the Bible as its written?

Why cant we believe the writer of the Genesis story used the correct words?

Why cant 'light" be talking about "light"?

This is Just One Giant Run On Sentence with No Real Substance.

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

no...check to see if the text actually says that the "sun" was made then...

Check is the text actually says that the "moon' was made then.


Oh.....and as for the stars, many people believe that the Bible teaches that the stars were made on the 4th day....do you see that in your Bible?

If you do, then you better check the King James and look for the hints about the words that are added to the Text in that verse by the editors of other bibles.....the King James bible will show you the added words.


Imjust suggesting you read the Bible, not add any words to the text, and believe what you read and not need to appeal to commentary.


I mean if the Bible were written so that just to understand it you needed to wait for a commentary to tell you what it says, you are out of luck then if you dont got a handy commentary around I guess......


Butif the bible were written in such a way as to just read it,stick to the words you see there, and you can believe it as its written, then all people in every place and in every time can learn from the Bible....even if they never have a "commentary" to set them straight on some teaching that might not be in the Bible as it appears, but were just stuff the commentary wanted you to believe 'should" have been in the Bible had they been in charge of making it....




So......what so wrong with believing the Bible as its written?

Why cant we believe the writer of the Genesis story used the correct words?

Why cant 'light" be talking about "light"?

Alan, the KJ says God made "two" great lights and set "them" in the heavens on day four. Really, what more do you need to show that these are the sun and the moon?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by disciple

Alan, the KJ says God made "two" great lights and set "them" in the heavens on day four. Really, what more do you need to show that these are the sun and the moon?

what if its just what it says it is?

how would that chage your views on what is being taught?

What if you dont need to replace any words in the text at all?

what if you believe it as it appears?


what if the writer had WANTED to talk about the things he wrote down?

what if the writer did not need you to fix things ?





In other words.....what if the writer of this story had wanted to talk about the greater and lesser amounts of light that changed on the 4th day?......and so that is why he talks about the greater and lesser amounts of light!!!!!

[alanmolstad]

Just for me, I want you to try to read the text one time and believe it as it appears, regardless if this then agrees with YEC or not.

this means that when you read that God made all the "Heavens" first at the very start,"In the beginning" you believed it...

[alanmolstad]

I look forward to your findings...

[jude1:3]

I'm seriousely surprised that you are defending evolution when it is such an anti Christian theory that has done so much to destroy the faith of people's belief in God. Not just in the Christian belief in God but other faiths also.

Also, it was created by ungodly men specifially to decieve and curupt the world view of people and especially young people in universitys.

[alanmolstad]

What I do is quote the bible....ever see me not?

[alanmolstad]

What's the first thing that the bible listed that God created in the beginning? ...

You will either answer based on the text or you will try to dodge around what you see clearly the text says.

What will you do?

[jude1:3]

How many people have come to believe in The Lord Jesus Christ through Evolution compared to being converted to atheism through evolution ?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

What's the first thing that the bible listed that God created in the beginning? ...

and the answer is- "In the beginning, God Created the HEAVENS and the EARTH"





So the Bible lists the "Heavens"as the very first thing God created.
Thats not my opinion, thats what the Text says.
Some YEC teachers might not like it, but thats too bad, the Text says what the Text says.....

I just read it and believe it.

[alanmolstad]

now why dont YEC teachers like to answer my question asked above about the first things God created in the story?.....The ANSWER is- that they dont like what the Bible says because it totally will mess up what they teach about Young Earth Creationism.

Its that simple....
They dont like what the Bible teaches so that dont answer my questions about that topic.

What will they do when I ask them what the Bible says?....The try to change the topic...they bring up stuff not connected to my question in the hope of getting off the topic of what the Bible teaches....

[jude1:3]

You shouldn't call it evolution. You should call it YEC vs Really Old Earth or something else because honestly evolution only leads to atheism.

[alanmolstad]

thus......when I ask the question about what the Bible says.....you can learn what side of this question you are on by your answer..

Willyou read the Text and believe it as written?

or -

Willyou try to ignore what the Bible says in black and white, and try also to change the topic?





If you can answer my question about what the Bible says at Gen 1:1 then you are on the Lord's side.....you trust the bible .

But if you have to twist out of answering?.....You are on the side of the YEC , the side of "men's thinking"...and false ideas.





So I ask then- "At Genesis 1:1 what does the Bible list as the very first thing God created In the beginning?"

[jude1:3]

Atheists believe in Evolution Alan because that is where evolution leads them.

[alanmolstad]

Walter martin always allowed for the fact that the earth is old.....millions and billions of years old...

You may have heard of Ken Samples who used to cover for Walter on the Bible Answer Man show.....would you be interested in learning what Mr Samples thinks of the topic of the Old Earth?....and how it fits with the story of Genesis?

[jude1:3]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

You may have heard of Ken Samples who used to cover for Walter on the Bible Answer Man show.....would you be interested in learning what Mr Samples thinks of the topic of the Old Earth?....and how it fits with the story of Genesis?

Sure, sounds good.

[alanmolstad]

Ken Samples: “I think the age of the earth and universe is a very important scientific and apologetics topic. I also think it is quite appropriate for Christians to engage in debates and dialogues concerning these controversial science-faith issues. Unfortunately, this has become a very contentious topic for many Christians. Some believers seem to struggle to treat the people with whom they differ over this issue with appropriate respect and grace.

Personally, I’m persuaded that science overwhelmingly supports the old-earth creationist position and that the position is quite compatible with a viable interpretation of Scripture.

https://chab123.wordpress.com/2013/0...h-ken-samples/