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Thread: Why are there no moron, sorry, mormon posters here

  1. #26
    neverending
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    All works that you are capable of fulfilling and that you have knowledge of will be required of you for your salvation.
    Now, do you really want me to answer this one as well?
    I am sorry for you then for my salvation doesn't require me to do good works, for there is NOTHING I could do that would ever be acceptable to God."But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteous acts are as filthy rags....." Isaiah 64:6
    Do you know what it means by, "filthy rags?" Not to gross anyone out but it means the rags that women used in Biblical times during their time of the month. So, according to Isaiah our righteous acts are as filthy, bloody rags to God. Do we want to present him with such disgusting gifts? I don't think so. And it was due to the shed blood of Jesus Christ and my faith and trust in Him that has given me my salvation. My place with God is ***ured. Read 1 John 5:13, it is what I cling to and can trust. I pray you can too.
    As for the new member and his thread. I welcome any comments he will post if he does but as I said, his thread should have been worded in a more polite way, and that does NOT mean changing his wording to mean something else as far as calling Mormons, morons. I'd appreciate you NOT ***uming what I think, thank you. And as for my brother, yes, he's a moron for he is one of the biggest hypocrites I know. He even went so far as to agree to giving a prayer at my cousins funeral, even though he admits he doesn't believe in God. What would you call such a person?

  2. #27
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    Yes, you did.
    Here is exactly what you said.............

    and then you go on and on..

    Look, dont make us guys who did nothing wrong into the guilty party here.
    neverending did NOTHING wrong.....

    She correctly pointed out that I should have welcomed the new poster in addition to my pointing out his error...and she correctly pointed out that the new poster should have worded is 1st comment differently.

    thats all i could hope for....

    So move on.....

  3. #28
    neverending
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    and then you go on and on..

    Look, dont make us guys who did nothing wrong into the guilty party here.
    neverending did NOTHING wrong.....

    She correctly pointed out that I should have welcomed the new poster in addition to my pointing out his error...and she correctly pointed out that the new poster should have worded is 1st comment differently.

    thats all i could hope for....

    So move on.....
    Thank you alan for your support, it meant a lot.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Really.. So just what can a man do gto bring about his own salvatkon in gthe highest heaven of God? What is it that you think will make you worthy? There are beautiful church houses all over the USA that took a lot of work to build? Doing so just to have a place for the Church to gather doesn't sound to lazy to me.. There are Church supported mission across the world. They teach the truth as it is found in the Bible. they offer medical care, they educate and feed the locals. No one is excluded because they are poor or orphaned. Again I ask where in the laziness.. The people the Church sends into the world to be Her hands receive their daily bread and little else, and yet they struggle to gain acceptance into a ministry to do the work.. Lazy? Are you sure you know what the word means?

    Christians then aren't lazy they know what they can do and what must be left to the grace of God through faith in Jesus.. The question here is why don't you and your church leaders know these things? IHS jim
    LOL... see what I mean....
    AntiMormons don't ask questions to know answers, or understand doctrine.
    They question
    Then they ask rhetorical questions
    Then they question one's integrity with backhanded insults

    There certainly is no questioning of their motives or the spirit which drives them.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    and then you go on and on..

    Look, dont make us guys who did nothing wrong into the guilty party here.
    neverending did NOTHING wrong.....

    She correctly pointed out that I should have welcomed the new poster in addition to my pointing out his error...and she correctly pointed out that the new poster should have worded is 1st comment differently.

    thats all i could hope for....

    So move on.....
    Ah... No... it might of been a Freudian Slip on her part, but she did not say the new poster should have worded their comment "differently" only "more politely".
    It's just like JohnT getting all over my case for calling someone "silly" then turning right around and calling me "puerile" which is the nice form of "silly" as though there was a difference.

    Frankly I'd rather be called silly

  6. #31
    James Banta
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    [theway;153864]And I'm sure I have answered every one of them. The fact that you don't like the answer does not mean they haven't been answered for you.
    Problem is that your answers are not making any sense..

    One
    Really you know better then the Prophet Joseph Smith who said he saw God? He said:

    I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for that express purpose. I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years. I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three cons***ute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it! (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473)

    I would think that if Smith was indeed a prophet of God his knowledge of the number of Gods that exist would be superior to yours.. I think that if you are righton this point of doctrine that you would be the president and prophet of the LDS church.. I guess to align with the teaching of Smith and his church you should have ignored Jesus and the Bible and said THREE..


    Yes, yes, yes and yes... Just like your Trinity doctrine states.
    The Doctrine of the Trinity never says that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are three separate beings, Never does it say that they are separate Gods.. It teaches that they are separate Persons.. That the three Persons of the Trinity are the one true God.. You are telling me that that is a lie that the Bible and Jesus are liars as they teach that the Lord our God is one LORD.. Your statement shows a lack of education as to what is and is not Christian doctrine..

    The only difference is that we can explain how this is possible... You can not because "ignorance is bliss" for some.
    You are right you can explain your error by the logic of men.. I can only explain what God has said about Himself in His word. He said that there is one God who is our Lord. He said that He and no one and nothing else was ever a God in the past or in the future. To allow the thinking of mormonism to make sense of the Bible especially in this p***age additions have to be made to the p***age the wording if only in their thoughts. The phrase here must mean "For this world". Without the addition their doctrine of eternal progression is destroyed..

    So can I explain the Trinity, YES, by what God gave us in His world that speaks to His nature.. He said that He is "Us" (Gen 1:26), Jesus is said to have been with God as well as being God in the beginning (John 1:1). Again to make it work for mormonism they add the article "a" to the meaning of the p***age.. Jesus much later describes the Father as God (John 20:17). Then after Jesus went to be with the Father, in His Kingdom, after the Promised Holy Spirit had come onto the Church, Peter calls Him God (Acts 5:3-4).. But still unless God lies, the Lord our God is one Lord.. The doctrine of the trinity retell the nature of God by what He has explained of Himself in the scripture.. You deny the scripture to believe that there are three different beings that are three Gods. Of course you believe that is incorrect and believe maybe that only the Father is God.. That would deny the divinity of Jesus and the Holy Spirit .. It is clear that you have no idea of who and what God is..

    No
    Really.. That is just one more denial of the scripture.. You doubt me then look for yourself Romans 3:23..

    Because they choose to follow their physical nature instead of our divine nature.
    What is this a LDS admitting that we have a physical nature? But How did we get a divine nature.. Jesus said we must be born again. We were all born the first time with a physical nature then we had to be Born Again of the Spirit and take on a spiritual nature. Remember even your BofM teaches that the natural mane is an enemy of God.. And remember Jesus said that there is a nature birth and a spiritual birth. They must happen at two different times.. So how is one born spiritually (John1:12)? Again look it up..

    Two ways; either with Judgment or Mercy depending on us and our free agency.
    I agree that God will bring judgment on all who reject Him but you didn't say how the "truth" teaches that we can gain Mercy.. I say that it comes by His grace through faith in Jesus and NOT OF WORKS so that no one, NOT ONE OF US can boast.. No Baptism, No laying on of hands, no priesthood, no endowments, no marriage.. Just faith in Jesus. You say that you believe that salvation comes as a product of God's grace through faith and then as soon as your ordinances, priesthoods, or endurance to the end are brought up you change to a 100% believer in works salvation.. Haven't you seen that Christians are 100% consistent in holding that salvation is by grace through faith plus nothing?

    Now you are "questioning" instead of "asking a question" You are looking to see if my answer will match yours because you think you already know the answer. My answer is simply that I don't know why specifically Christ had to die at all, or that blood was necessary to be spilt, other than to say that it had to happen. Even Christ asked His Father if there was another way.
    Did I say that you or any LDS teaching aligned with what I said? I asked a fair question..

    In Romans 6:23 we are told that the wages of Sin is Death. The atonement for sin requires death. If you believed the Bible you wold see that and recognize that Jesus became the sacrifice for sin.. He became sin, He who knew no sin, that we can be made the righteousness of God in Him.. Because He became sin He had to die.. See all you can learn posting here?

    Yes Jesus asked if there was another way.. There wasn't and Jesus went through the wrath of God that would be poured out on Him because of the sin He represented..

    What's the difference?
    The difference is do you believe God or do you doubt Him.. He explained through His Apostle that He created all things visible and invisible.. Mormonism knows better than that and calls the elements eternal when It teaches that God was NOT always God, but that He became a God through obedience to laws and ordinances.. It's not bad enough that you deny God is the absolute creator but you teach that He was the creation of another older and therefore more powerful God. That is the difference.. Again it shows the world that you doubt God through His word..

    there you go again... "Questioning" instead of "asking your question"
    However so you can not claim that you have not been answered I must inform you that all things are eternal especially God.
    It's only a matter of what form.
    Tell me then that Jesus was there with the Father as He was in His Father's Kingdom as a spirit child before He became the Savior of the mortal world His Father in heaven created. If at that time He was God just in a different form was Jesus there with Him in the form of an intelligence? He would have to be if you are willing to stand by your false doctrine.. And not just Jesus but all those who such a being would know who would also become Gods as He did.. I have often said this "It this wasn't so sad it would be funny"..


    I don't know? I guess you'll have to ask the person who recorded his remarks, and then ask Joseph Smith. But if He was "just like Jesus" then He still would have been God.
    Good, let me tell you I don't know how God flooded the whole earth or how He parted the Red Sea but I believe He did those things.. I don't need to wait and ask Noah or Moses. Was Smith a true prophet or a false prophet? If he was a real prophet, a true prophet then His teaching of God's nature would be true, wouldn't? It only makes sense that a true prophet would offer only truth not lies.. The meaning is straight forward, He taught that there are three Gods.. That is in conflict with the Bible..

    Yes
    All of them!
    That is just what I was saying you will say that LDS doctrine agrees with the Bible, but when asked about the requirements for salvation you immediately revert to works based salvation.. You are making my point very clearly..

    As you can see, I had no problem with them
    You have no problem with stateing the man invented doctrines but I noticed that other than a a yes and no you had nothing in your post that could be supported Biblically.. IHS jim

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post

    I am sorry for you then for my salvation doesn't require me to do good works, for there is NOTHING I could do that would ever be acceptable to God."But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteous acts are as filthy rags....." Isaiah 64:6
    [SIZE=3]Do you know what it means by, "filthy rags?" Not to gross anyone out but it means the rags that women used in Biblical times during their time of the month. So, according to Isaiah our righteous acts are as filthy, bloody rags to God. Do we want to present him with such disgusting gifts? I don't think so.
    What's funny is that you have jumped to this verse so many times that you probably never read the verse that precedes it, because you are exactly supposed to meet and present your God with your good and righteous works.
    Isaiah 64:5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
    Nor have you ever read it in context. In verse 6 Isaiah is specifically only talking to the house of Israel at a specific time period in their history. This was a time when they made sacrifices at the temple as works of righteousness, but then turn around and worship other Gods at the same time. God is saying that this being the case that their righeous acts have become as filthy rags because of their hypocrisy.

    THIS NEVER WAS MEANT TO IMPLY THAT ALL GOOD WORKS WERE FITHY RAGS.
    Perhaps you need better Sunday School teachers as well.
    Last edited by theway; 03-17-2014 at 05:28 PM.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Problem is that your answers are not making any sense..



    Really you know better then the Prophet Joseph Smith who said he saw God? He said:

    I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for that express purpose. I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years. I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three cons***ute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it! (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473)

    I would think that if Smith was indeed a prophet of God his knowledge of the number of Gods that exist would be superior to yours.. I think that if you are righton this point of doctrine that you would be the president and prophet of the LDS church.. I guess to align with the teaching of Smith and his church you should have ignored Jesus and the Bible and said THREE..




    The Doctrine of the Trinity never says that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are three separate beings, Never does it say that they are separate Gods.. It teaches that they are separate Persons.. That the three Persons of the Trinity are the one true God.. You are telling me that that is a lie that the Bible and Jesus are liars as they teach that the Lord our God is one LORD.. Your statement shows a lack of education as to what is and is not Christian doctrine..



    You are right you can explain your error by the logic of men.. I can only explain what God has said about Himself in His word. He said that there is one God who is our Lord. He said that He and no one and nothing else was ever a God in the past or in the future. To allow the thinking of mormonism to make sense of the Bible especially in this p***age additions have to be made to the p***age the wording if only in their thoughts. The phrase here must mean "For this world". Without the addition their doctrine of eternal progression is destroyed..

    So can I explain the Trinity, YES, by what God gave us in His world that speaks to His nature.. He said that He is "Us" (Gen 1:26), Jesus is said to have been with God as well as being God in the beginning (John 1:1). Again to make it work for mormonism they add the article "a" to the meaning of the p***age.. Jesus much later describes the Father as God (John 20:17). Then after Jesus went to be with the Father, in His Kingdom, after the Promised Holy Spirit had come onto the Church, Peter calls Him God (Acts 5:3-4).. But still unless God lies, the Lord our God is one Lord.. The doctrine of the trinity retell the nature of God by what He has explained of Himself in the scripture.. You deny the scripture to believe that there are three different beings that are three Gods. Of course you believe that is incorrect and believe maybe that only the Father is God.. That would deny the divinity of Jesus and the Holy Spirit .. It is clear that you have no idea of who and what God is..



    Really.. That is just one more denial of the scripture.. You doubt me then look for yourself Romans 3:23..



    What is this a LDS admitting that we have a physical nature? But How did we get a divine nature.. Jesus said we must be born again. We were all born the first time with a physical nature then we had to be Born Again of the Spirit and take on a spiritual nature. Remember even your BofM teaches that the natural mane is an enemy of God.. And remember Jesus said that there is a nature birth and a spiritual birth. They must happen at two different times.. So how is one born spiritually (John1:12)? Again look it up..



    I agree that God will bring judgment on all who reject Him but you didn't say how the "truth" teaches that we can gain Mercy.. I say that it comes by His grace through faith in Jesus and NOT OF WORKS so that no one, NOT ONE OF US can boast.. No Baptism, No laying on of hands, no priesthood, no endowments, no marriage.. Just faith in Jesus. You say that you believe that salvation comes as a product of God's grace through faith and then as soon as your ordinances, priesthoods, or endurance to the end are brought up you change to a 100% believer in works salvation.. Haven't you seen that Christians are 100% consistent in holding that salvation is by grace through faith plus nothing?



    Did I say that you or any LDS teaching aligned with what I said? I asked a fair question..

    In Romans 6:23 we are told that the wages of Sin is Death. The atonement for sin requires death. If you believed the Bible you wold see that and recognize that Jesus became the sacrifice for sin.. He became sin, He who knew no sin, that we can be made the righteousness of God in Him.. Because He became sin He had to die.. See all you can learn posting here?

    Yes Jesus asked if there was another way.. There wasn't and Jesus went through the wrath of God that would be poured out on Him because of the sin He represented..



    The difference is do you believe God or do you doubt Him.. He explained through His Apostle that He created all things visible and invisible.. Mormonism knows better than that and calls the elements eternal when It teaches that God was NOT always God, but that He became a God through obedience to laws and ordinances.. It's not bad enough that you deny God is the absolute creator but you teach that He was the creation of another older and therefore more powerful God. That is the difference.. Again it shows the world that you doubt God through His word..



    Tell me then that Jesus was there with the Father as He was in His Father's Kingdom as a spirit child before He became the Savior of the mortal world His Father in heaven created. If at that time He was God just in a different form was Jesus there with Him in the form of an intelligence? He would have to be if you are willing to stand by your false doctrine.. And not just Jesus but all those who such a being would know who would also become Gods as He did.. I have often said this "It this wasn't so sad it would be funny"..




    Good, let me tell you I don't know how God flooded the whole earth or how He parted the Red Sea but I believe He did those things.. I don't need to wait and ask Noah or Moses. Was Smith a true prophet or a false prophet? If he was a real prophet, a true prophet then His teaching of God's nature would be true, wouldn't? It only makes sense that a true prophet would offer only truth not lies.. The meaning is straight forward, He taught that there are three Gods.. That is in conflict with the Bible..



    That is just what I was saying you will say that LDS doctrine agrees with the Bible, but when asked about the requirements for salvation you immediately revert to works based salvation.. You are making my point very clearly..



    You have no problem with stateing the man invented doctrines but I noticed that other than a a yes and no you had nothing in your post that could be supported Biblically.. IHS jim
    I answered your questions stating beforehand that you were not interested in having your questioned answered.
    I have no intention of reading your reply because I know my point was made.
    You only question as it gives you a platform in which to rant on.

    What worse is that you have no idea about the gospel or what Christ taught.

  9. #34
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    but she did not say the new poster should have worded their comment "differently" only "more politely".
    "Did not say"???
    I simply don't have time for this.
    I'm too old, and too tired to be always wishing for interesting topics that really challenge me to come up with new ways to express my views to others.

  10. #35
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    Thank you alan for your support, it meant a lot.
    I have amended my "IGNORE list to include that guy for the next week or so.
    I dont mind when people criticize us over things that appear on the forum, but to criticize over things that dont appear here?...to blame you for what you did not write?....thats just not going to fly here with me.

    If I criticize someone I do so based on what they actually posted in black and white...
    I dont play favorites, Im not on any 'team"
    I dont cut people slack when they post something that is in error, regardless if they agree with me most of the time or not.

    and....I dont try to read the person's mind.

  11. #36
    neverending
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    What's funny is that you have jumped to this verse so many times that you probably never read the verse that precedes it, because you are exactly supposed to meet and present your God with your good and righteous works.
    Isaiah 64:5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
    Nor have you ever read it in context. In verse 6 Isaiah is specifically only talking to the house of Israel at a specific time period in their history. This was a time when they made sacrifices at the temple as works of righteousness, but then turn around and worship other Gods at the same time. God is saying that this being the case that their righeous acts have become as filthy rags because of their hypocrisy.

    THIS NEVER WAS MEANT TO IMPLY THAT ALL GOOD WORKS WERE FITHY RAGS.
    Perhaps you need better Sunday School teachers as well.

    Maybe we should look at translations made from older m****cripts, translated into modern English so we can understand the writers intent. We no longer speak as they did in England back during the reign of King James. The first part of Chapter 64, praise God for his power and majesty. Isaiah, states clearly that there were no other gods in Israel. That He acts on behalf of those who wait for Him and gladly helps those who do the right things and remember His commandments. But don't we continue to sin against his ways (His commandments) for our disobedience God is angry; so how then can we be saved? So then look at Isaiah 64:6. theway, I didn't write the Bible. Isaiah said, WE HAVE ALL BECOME LIKE ONE WHO IS UNCLEAN! We all SIN! We then go out and try to do righteous acts. Does that not make us ALL hypocrites? Those righteous acts are filthy rags before God. Again, I didn't write the Bible. Isaiah said we ALL then shrivel up as a leaf and like the wind, our sins; carry us away. That is what the p***age says. And my Sunday School teacher is just fine in what I am hearing.
    To God, sin is sin and rebellion against Him and yes, Israel was making sacrifices to other gods, but again that was SIN! So that makes none of us clean and our poor attempts are useless because we are being hypocrites and God knows the things we do; He sees everything, nothing is hidden from God. This verse means as much today as it did for Israel, before the Babylonian captivity. FOR ALL HAVE SINNED!! I am sure you've read that verse many times. The ONLY righteousness we have is through Jesus Christ and if we don't have his righteousness, we have no righteousness, period! We're not capable of being righteous, our hearts are evil, our thoughts are evil. Sure, we try but we will fail at some point. Even Paul said he sinned, which made him unrighteous (Romans 7:19).

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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post

    Maybe we should look at translations made from older m****cripts, translated into modern English so we can understand the writers intent. We no longer speak as they did in England back during the reign of King James. The first part of Chapter 64, praise God for his power and majesty. Isaiah, states clearly that there were no other gods in Israel. That He acts on behalf of those who wait for Him and gladly helps those who do the right things and remember His commandments. But don't we continue to sin against his ways (His commandments) for our disobedience God is angry; so how then can we be saved? So then look at Isaiah 64:6. theway, I didn't write the Bible. Isaiah said, WE HAVE ALL BECOME LIKE ONE WHO IS UNCLEAN! We all SIN! We then go out and try to do righteous acts. Does that not make us ALL hypocrites? Those righteous acts are filthy rags before God. Again, I didn't write the Bible. Isaiah said we ALL then shrivel up as a leaf and like the wind, our sins; carry us away. That is what the p***age says. And my Sunday School teacher is just fine in what I am hearing.
    To God, sin is sin and rebellion against Him and yes, Israel was making sacrifices to other gods, but again that was SIN! So that makes none of us clean and our poor attempts are useless because we are being hypocrites and God knows the things we do; He sees everything, nothing is hidden from God. This verse means as much today as it did for Israel, before the Babylonian captivity. FOR ALL HAVE SINNED!! I am sure you've read that verse many times. The ONLY righteousness we have is through Jesus Christ and if we don't have his righteousness, we have no righteousness, period! We're not capable of being righteous, our hearts are evil, our thoughts are evil. Sure, we try but we will fail at some point. Even Paul said he sinned, which made him unrighteous (Romans 7:19).
    Once again... Isaiah was only speaking of the Children of Israel at that time in their history.
    This is not a Mormon translation nor is it a works based religion translation. It simply is what it is. You want to misinterpret it to fit into a Faith Alone heresy, that it won't do... Sorry.

    You then misinterpret Jeremiah and Mark by implying that all hearts are evil, thinking you can make that verse fit your Faith Alone heresy as well. However once again you are blinded to the verse right next to it.

    Jeremiah 17:10 I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.

    Ask yourself why God would search our heart if it was only evil, and our works/deeds are all filthy rags?
    The answer is right there in the Bible as well...

    Matt. 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

    Out of the good heart comes good things, out of the evil heart comes bad.
    This is the gospel 101, the gospel is about making bad men good and good men better, so that all can move onto perfection.
    Seems your Sunday School teacher needs a good teacher.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    You stated it correctly.... Faith Alone was built on man's knowledge because mankind is lazy.
    Don't let yourself be caught without oil in your lamp when you are called to meet him.
    I use batteries. This is a good example of works vs faith in Christ Jesus of the Holy Bible. If you look at the Scriptures in the New Testament you'll find where works no matter how many or worthy never could fill you lamp. This is why Jesus, paid the price for mankind on the Cross, He and He alone will fill your cup if you let Him.

  14. #39
    James Banta
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    [theway;153888]Once again... Isaiah was only speaking of the Children of Israel at that time in their history.
    This is not a Mormon translation nor is it a works based religion translation. It simply is what it is. You want to misinterpret it to fit into a Faith Alone heresy, that it won't do... Sorry.
    You are making the the scripture totally irreverent to anyone but the Children of Israel with your interpretation. No the whole of the Bible is there to teach all men especially the Church.. Jesus told the Jews to:

    John 5:39
    Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


    Paul Speaking to Timothy said:

    2 Tim 2:15
    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


    Was this only advice to Timothy at that time and we don't have to Study the scriptures. Jesus was talking only to the Jews and the Way to eternal life can't be found in the scripture by anyone but them at that time.. Your weak explanation that Isaiah's teachings were only for Israel and Israel that that time is astonishingly FALSE.. The Scripture ALL of it is there to lead us to Jesus and thereby to salvation..

    You then misinterpret Jeremiah and Mark by implying that all hearts are evil, thinking you can make that verse fit your Faith Alone heresy as well. However once again you are blinded to the verse right next to it.

    Jeremiah 17:10 I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.

    Ask yourself why God would search our heart if it was only evil, and our works/deeds are all filthy rags?
    Do I misinterpret really? Are we different than the men before the flood? I say that in our nature before we are quickened by the Holy Spirit and become children of God that we are just like those people. And what is reported by God of them as He searched their hearts?

    Gen 6:5
    And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

    The answer is right there in the Bible as well...
    Then the heart that has not be "BORN FROM ABOVE" Born again, does only evil continually. When God searches such a heart that is what He finds.. From such as one of these their attempts to "Be Good" are as filthy rags before God. The word of God that He has preserved for us teaches these things.. You demand that to us these teaching are worthless.. Think for yourself, what is God going to find in an impure heart? A heart fulled with corruption and enmity toward God? What would we find if we mixed pure clean water with sewage? We would find nothing but sewage.. That is what God finds in the hearts of men as He searches them, Filthy Rages.. It is not in the power of good works to make someone clean before God. That requires BLOOD.

    Leviticus 17:11
    For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.


    The writer to Hebrews made it clearer:

    Hebrews 9:22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

    It is clear then that the acts of men outside the blood of Jesus are nothing but filthy rags.. Remember When Jesus was called "Good Master". He said "why do you call me Good ? There is only one who is Good and that is God". But you and your LDS betral of the scripture demands that Men are basically good.. Just like the Pharisees at the time of Jesus, those outside of the New Birth are natural men and are of their father the devil (John 8:44).




    Matt. 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

    Out of the good heart comes good things, out of the evil heart comes bad.
    This is the gospel 101, the gospel is about making bad men good and good men better, so that all can move onto perfection.
    Seems your Sunday School teacher needs a good teacher.
    So the Good man would be the man who is in the righteousness of Jesus and the evil man would be one that worships false Gods, or no God at all. Those who have no faith in the Jesus of the Bible. Those that corrupt His nature to be a creation rather than the creator. I hold that those that are in the righteousness of Jesus are Good and bring forth good things that are acceptable to God. The evil men who reject that righteousness to build their own in the name of humanity, in the name of other Gods, or in their own name are building with filth rags.. IHS jim

  15. #40
    neverending
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    Once again... Isaiah was only speaking of the Children of Israel at that time in their history.
    This is not a Mormon translation nor is it a works based religion translation. It simply is what it is. You want to misinterpret it to fit into a Faith Alone heresy, that it won't do... Sorry.

    You then misinterpret Jeremiah and Mark by implying that all hearts are evil, thinking you can make that verse fit your Faith Alone heresy as well. However once again you are blinded to the verse right next to it.

    Jeremiah 17:10 I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.

    Ask yourself why God would search our heart if it was only evil, and our works/deeds are all filthy rags?
    The answer is right there in the Bible as well...

    Matt. 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

    Out of the good heart comes good things, out of the evil heart comes bad.
    This is the gospel 101, the gospel is about making bad men good and good men better, so that all can move onto perfection.
    Seems your Sunday School teacher needs a good teacher.
    theway, how tired I am of your saying that faith alone is heresy. If that is so, then Paul taught heresy. We know that the Bible was all about Israel and how God dealt with His chosen people but it is a book for all men, not just Israel. In it one finds solace, God's truths and what man needs to know to gain his/her salvation. The Bible has lasted for millennia and is still important for today. God sees the heart of man, He sees the heart of man and knows that it is evil. If it wasn't so, then Jesus Christ's entire life and death was in vain. Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost. Sure, if people were to live entirely for God, man would be good but no one can do that. Our nature doesn't allow us to be 100% good. Even our thoughts are evil and God knows our thoughts even if we don't act on them. No one can be perfect as you claim, again it is not possible. Your BoM says that, the natural man is an enemy of God, why is that? Why is that stated if it wasn't so?
    I again say how sorry I am that you have been made to believe doctrines that are not true but twist the precious scriptures to fit what JS taught and he was not a good man and no amount of studying the Bible for him would have made him a good man. This is true from the very words he spoke, that no man could enter heaven without his say so. He made himself to take the place of God for ONLY God has the right to say who can and can't enter heaven. And those who have rejected Jesus Christ, (the true Jesus Christ) not an intelligence who lived in heaven but was God himself, a part of the Godhead. So for me I also claim, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
    Another verse says, "For ALL have sinned....." So the question must be asked, what is your definition of ALL?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    So.... You welcomed his comment that Mormons are morons?
    Mormons aren't very deep thinkers. Why would anyone want to follow a punk like Smith - who has been documented to be a total fake? There has to be a vested interest. More and more people are actually looking up the history of the cult, and of Smith, and are stalking off - Mormonism is a dying cult.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    theway, how tired I am of your saying that faith alone is heresy.
    I can't help that, it is a heresy. Faith Alone is a late Protestant belief which even today is only believed by 12%-15% of those who call themselves Christian. Even then, if you go to any Calvinist or Evangelical forum you will see them still argue morning and night about just how far they want to go with that belief. Face it! You belong to a heretical minority sect of Christianity which has fooled itself into believing that their beliefs are actually representative of Christianity.
    This is why I always ask why you guys why you are trying to force a belief upon us poor Mormons that you can not even get your own fellow "Christians" to fall for.

    But don't worry, as I have said in the past; humans are generally lazy, and because Faith Alone if the lazy mans religion, it will one day become the majority opinion. But until then, it is a heresy to the rest of the vast majority of Christians.... Sorry to break the news to you (if it is indeed news to you)

  18. #43
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    I can't help that, it is a heresy. Faith Alone is a late Protestant belief which even today is only believed by 12%-15% of those who call themselves Christian. Even then, if you go to any Calvinist or Evangelical forum you will see them still argue morning and night about just how far they want to go with that belief. Face it! You belong to a heretical minority sect of Christianity which has fooled itself into believing that their beliefs are actually representative of Christianity.
    This is why I always ask why you guys why you are trying to force a belief upon us poor Mormons that you can not even get your own fellow "Christians" to fall for.

    But don't worry, as I have said in the past; humans are generally lazy, and because Faith Alone if the lazy mans religion, it will one day become the majority opinion. But until then, it is a heresy to the rest of the vast majority of Christians.... Sorry to break the news to you (if it is indeed news to you)
    I say 100% Faith alone, and what is your percentage?

  19. #44
    neverending
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    I can't help that, it is a heresy. Faith Alone is a late Protestant belief which even today is only believed by 12%-15% of those who call themselves Christian. Even then, if you go to any Calvinist or Evangelical forum you will see them still argue morning and night about just how far they want to go with that belief. Face it! You belong to a heretical minority sect of Christianity which has fooled itself into believing that their beliefs are actually representative of Christianity.
    This is why I always ask why you guys why you are trying to force a belief upon us poor Mormons that you can not even get your own fellow "Christians" to fall for.

    But don't worry, as I have said in the past; humans are generally lazy, and because Faith Alone if the lazy mans religion, it will one day become the majority opinion. But until then, it is a heresy to the rest of the vast majority of Christians.... Sorry to break the news to you (if it is indeed news to you)
    Oh, how very sad indeed. Where are your scriptures to defend what you posted here? You purposely ignored my scriptures I gave you and I guess you are calling the Apostle Paul a liar, and he too is a heretic? For it was he who told us what I posted in Ephesians 2:8-9. Why do you ignore an important scripture verse? Why does it say in John, that whosoever believes in him, shall have everlasting life? BELIEVE! What does that word mean to you? Is believe not the same as FAITH?

    Now, I want your references for all the nonsense you posted claiming that only 12-15% of Christians believe as I and James do. Where? And Mormons are NOT POOR!!! in the context you're using here. You want to play the victim?
    Do look up John 4:10, "Jesus answered her and said, if you knew the GIFT OF GOD and who it is that asked you for a drink, you would have ASKED him and he would have GIVEN you living water." See, this woman only had to ASK! Acts 15:11, "NO! We believe it is through the GRACE of our Lord Jesus that we are SAVED, just as they are." Romans 3:24, "And ALL are justified freely by HIS GRACE, through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Romans 9:16, "It does not, therefore depend on HUMAN DESIRE OR EFFORT but on God's MERCY." 1 Peter 1:5, "Who through FAITH are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." So don't tell me that this is a recent invention!! ALL these verses have been within our Bibles for millennia. We are not some newly invented cult, that is your religion theway. I follow the true and living God, not a man. For God so loved the world.....course you've heard this so many times that it means nothing to you. Abraham was considered righteous because of his FAITH in God so go dust off your Bible and read and read with an open mind, not one clouded over with the falsehoods of Mormonism.
    When I left Mormonism and was reading my scriptures one day, I had a very evident moment where I read things clearly for the first time.....and it was amazing! The scriptures opened up to me as they had never done before and so I call those moments, my AH HA moments and KNOW that it was the Holy Spirit that was speaking to me.

    You think it is ok to insult me and James and those who believe in Faith alone? We are NOT LAZY! NO, in fact the opposite is true, for Mormons don't do their own thinking, for when your prophet has spoken, the thinking has been done. MAN....what a load of manure! Oh and do ponder this one; a church that has all the answers, doesn't allow any questions. That is Mormonism, plain and simple. Try questioning some point of doctrine openly, say in Priesthood meeting and see how soon you find yourself in the Bishop's office. Don't forget, I am calling for a reference here.

  20. #45
    Zeus
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    Oh, how very sad indeed. Where are your scriptures to defend what you posted here? You purposely ignored my scriptures I gave you and I guess you are calling the Apostle Paul a liar, and he too is a heretic? For it was he who told us what I posted in Ephesians 2:8-9. Why do you ignore an important scripture verse? Why does it say in John, that whosoever believes in him, shall have everlasting life? BELIEVE! What does that word mean to you? Is believe not the same as FAITH?

    Now, I want your references for all the nonsense you posted claiming that only 12-15% of Christians believe as I and James do. Where? And Mormons are NOT POOR!!! in the context you're using here. You want to play the victim?
    Do look up John 4:10, "Jesus answered her and said, if you knew the GIFT OF GOD and who it is that asked you for a drink, you would have ASKED him and he would have GIVEN you living water." See, this woman only had to ASK! Acts 15:11, "NO! We believe it is through the GRACE of our Lord Jesus that we are SAVED, just as they are." Romans 3:24, "And ALL are justified freely by HIS GRACE, through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Romans 9:16, "It does not, therefore depend on HUMAN DESIRE OR EFFORT but on God's MERCY." 1 Peter 1:5, "Who through FAITH are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." So don't tell me that this is a recent invention!! ALL these verses have been within our Bibles for millennia. We are not some newly invented cult, that is your religion theway. I follow the true and living God, not a man. For God so loved the world.....course you've heard this so many times that it means nothing to you. Abraham was considered righteous because of his FAITH in God so go dust off your Bible and read and read with an open mind, not one clouded over with the falsehoods of Mormonism.
    When I left Mormonism and was reading my scriptures one day, I had a very evident moment where I read things clearly for the first time.....and it was amazing! The scriptures opened up to me as they had never done before and so I call those moments, my AH HA moments and KNOW that it was the Holy Spirit that was speaking to me.

    You think it is ok to insult me and James and those who believe in Faith alone? We are NOT LAZY! NO, in fact the opposite is true, for Mormons don't do their own thinking, for when your prophet has spoken, the thinking has been done. MAN....what a load of manure! Oh and do ponder this one; a church that has all the answers, doesn't allow any questions. That is Mormonism, plain and simple. Try questioning some point of doctrine openly, say in Priesthood meeting and see how soon you find yourself in the Bishop's office. Don't forget, I am calling for a reference here.
    The only time the Bible speaks of faith and alone together is:

    James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

  21. #46
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    The only time the Bible speaks of faith and alone together is:

    James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
    Before men we are justified by works....that is easy to understand as we can only see the things we say and do.

    but before god we are justified by faith, for God looks at our hidden thoughts of our heart.
    God is not confused by the outward works of a man, but knows the deepest thoughts of the heart.


    This is why we are saved by Grace though faith, and not by works.
    For it is only Grace that saved, and the means is faith...

  22. #47
    Zeus
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Before men we are justified by works....that is easy to understand as we can only see the things we say and do.

    but before god we are justified by faith, for God looks at our hidden thoughts of our heart.
    God is not confused by the outward works of a man, but knows the deepest thoughts of the heart.


    This is why we are saved by Grace though faith, and not by works.
    For it is only Grace that saved, and the means is faith...
    That isn't what the Bible verse I cited said.

    You are adding your own interpretations.

    Just read it. Pretty plain and simple without the need for extravagant philosophizing.

  23. #48
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    That isn't what the Bible verse I cited said.

    You are adding your own interpretations.

    Just read it. Pretty plain and simple without the need for extravagant philosophizing.
    You mean the verse that teaches that we are saved by Grace....?

    try this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcf1J6AJB9M

  24. #49
    alanmolstad
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    so as we learn here -
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcf1J6AJB9M
    that there is a Justification by Works, and a Justification by Faith.

    The Justification by Works is before men.
    and the Justification by Faith is before god.

    The Lord also tells us what is "the" work of God....."the" = the only work of god required, and that is to "believe" in the lord Jesus.

    So it is not by works that we are justified before God, but rather by faith.

  25. #50
    alanmolstad
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    this is why the thief on the cross received the same salvation that all christians receive.

    the thief had no works, .....but had faith.

    and the faith was counted as righteousness by the lord onto salvation.
    For the thief had no works, but had faith...and if you have faith you do not lack anything!

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