when I believe in God, I mean that I fully trust him and his offering of salvation to us.
I believe him when i place my trust in him.
Demons dont have this type of relationship with god.
While they may understand who God is, they yet will not ever believe in him as in- to place their trust in him for their salvation.
And you are correct James, due to the fact that Mormons dont believe in the God of the bible, they have no relationship with God just as the demons have no relationship with God.
It is clear that the demons believe that God is.. This is the dead faith that the mormons are always telling us that we have because we see salvation as being a gift from God to those that have faith in Jesus.. They require works first then faith before God's grace is available to those that confess Jesus.. As far as their insistence that James 2 is authority that works are required for salvation, they are wrong.. James tell is that faith is the key to God's grace.. James clearly teaches that works are there to show others that we have faith not to show God our faith..when I believe in God, I mean that I fully trust him and his offering of salvation to us.
I believe him when i place my trust in him.
Demons dont have this type of relationship with god.
While they may understand who God is, they yet will not ever believe in him as in- to place their trust in him for their salvation.
And you are correct James, due to the fact that Mormons dont believe in the God of the bible, they have no relationship with God just as the demons have no relationship with God.
James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James here is telling us that FAITH is still the key and that works are the visible result of saving faith.. And who sees this faith that is manifest by our works, God? No, other men see it.. Isn't that what James teaches in the p***age? James 2 is not a chapter of the Bible that the LDS should quote.. It condemns then time and time again.. It is something we as Christian need to remember.. Never hold preference for the rich over the poor. See to the welfare of the needy, the widowed, and the orphan. Cloth the naked and feed the hungry.. These are the works of God's love all Christians are called to do.. These works aren't the way to salvation They are just the signs that God lives in us and he is doing His works through us.. IHS jim
We don't agree on every point of doctrine.. We don't have to.. But Billy I never said you weren't my brother in Christ.. All the side issue no withstanding you hold that Jesus is God, that He died that we can be made clean and only By His grace through faith in Him can we be saved.. You hold that as truth and are my brother.. I stand at your side lifting the name of Jesus to the unsaved pointing them to His cross.. IHS jim
He does if those rags have been washed by the blood of Jesus Christ.
Absolve us from personal responsibility? Responsibility to do WHAT? Save our souls? ONLY JESUS could do that. Responsibility to live a Christian life? OF COURSE we are responsible for that, as the Spirit and the WORD OF GOD direct. Not as you or the rcc religion direct.
In the Name of Jesus,
fish
First,the quote you list "Filthy rags" refers in the Bible to the works that a Man might try to do to earn his salvation.
So we know seeking to perform works are not the way to find salvation .
Now...as for the work of the cross being sufficient to save men>>>>
Here is the answer _
Check out the point in the video at 3:40 to see how it all works out...
Enjoy!
First--that reference is to those who were in this spiritual condition:
Isaiah 64:6-7King James Version (KJV)
6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
Not a reference to these:
1 John 3:7---King James Version (KJV)
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Are you claiming those who did these works didn't find salvation?So we know seeking to perform works are not the way to find salvation .
Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
one of my best posts.....when I believe in God, I mean that I fully trust him and his offering of salvation to us.
I believe him when i place my trust in him.
Demons dont have this type of relationship with god.
While they may understand who God is, they yet will not ever believe in him as in- to place their trust in him for their salvation.
And you are correct James, due to the fact that Mormons dont believe in the God of the bible, they have no relationship with God just as the demons have no relationship with God.
It's easy. It is what the Scripture SAYS.
The Scripture:
Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works , lest anyone should boast.
NKJV
Works = Anything WE do.
Rom 4:4Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
NKJV
Rom 11:6
6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
NKJV
It is ALL the only REAL Jesus and NOT US who saves us from the penalty of our sins. False christs (spirit brothers of satan as the mormons claim) can't do it.
[COLOR="#000000"]
When Paul used the term "works"--that was a reference to certain Mosaic Law rituals, such as circumcision, not acts of obedience to Jesus Christ.
Could you explain for us--if you believe acts of obedience are not required for salvation--then why are all men judged according to works--after death--and that for life or ****ation?
John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.
2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Romans 2:5-11---King James Version (KJV)
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
1 Peter 1:16-17---King James Version (KJV)
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, p*** the time of your sojourning here in fear:
In the Life of a Christian such as myself, the "works" we deal with are the things that the Lord performs though us.
This is why we are advised to not 'quench the spirit" for we must always keep in mind that by ourselves we can do nothing,,,,(No works), it is the father in us that is working His will though our lives.
Our challenge therefore to the Christian is to open our hearts that it allows the Spirit to guide us in our walk, so that our lives are filled with a record of Good Works.
I don't believe the Lord is being judged here:
John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.
2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Romans 2:5-11---King James Version (KJV)
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
1 Peter 1:16-17---King James Version (KJV)
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, p*** the time of your sojourning here in fear:
I don't believe the Lord is being judged here:
John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.
2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Romans 2:5-11---King James Version (KJV)
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
1 Peter 1:16-17---King James Version (KJV)
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, p*** the time of your sojourning here in fear:
Yet NOT ONE OF THOSE P***AGES says anything about doing 'works' TO BECOME a Christian.
CHRISTIANS DO WORKS. We were MADE for them. (Ephesians 2:9) Read verse 8 too. IT says that we become Christians NOT BY WORKS we do.
The TRUTH IS. . .JESUS DID IT ALL. . .about 2,000 years ago.
Joey smith did nothing but lie, steal, try to incite riots, and try to kill people in an attempt to escape from jail.
What CHRISTIAN IN THE BIBLE EVER behaved like that?
Joey lied.
If Jesus Christ did it all--then why are all judged according to works--after death--and that for life or ****ation?Yet NOT ONE OF THOSE P***AGES says anything about doing 'works' TO BECOME a Christian.
CHRISTIANS DO WORKS. We were MADE for them. (Ephesians 2:9) Read verse 8 too. IT says that we become Christians NOT BY WORKS we do.
The TRUTH IS. . .JESUS DID IT ALL. . .about 2,000 years ago.
John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.
2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Romans 2:5-11---King James Version (KJV)
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
1 Peter 1:16-17---King James Version (KJV)
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, p*** the time of your sojourning here in fear:
Would you care to engage those scriptures?
I did aleady. You just ignored it. You also keep PRETENDING they have to BECOMING A CHRISTIAN (being saved from the penalty for our sins)If Jesus Christ did it all--then why are all judged according to works--after death--and that for life or ****ation?
John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.
2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Romans 2:5-11---King James Version (KJV)
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
1 Peter 1:16-17---King James Version (KJV)
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, p*** the time of your sojourning here in fear:
Would you care to engage those scriptures?
Would YOU care to engage THIS ONE:
Ex 20:16
16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
NKJV
You seem to ignore that one too. . .
Yet you seem to try to make things REQUIREMENTS to be a Christian that simply are NOT required to be a Christian.
GOD told us:
Rom 4:3-83 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin."
NKJV
Your false charges against Christians are without excuse.
Last edited by Christian; 12-23-2016 at 12:46 PM.
Then could you explain why all are judged according to their own works--after death--and that for life or ****ation?
John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.
2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Romans 2:5-11---King James Version (KJV)
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
1 Peter 1:16-17---King James Version (KJV)
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, p*** the time of your sojourning here in fear:
You know, I sure thought I have already dealt with this question, but let me go over this once again.
The Lost ARE judged and are condemned for their sin.
But the Christian has no sins that are not already covered by the blood of the Lord, therefore our judgement is a time of rejoicing and rewards!!!!!!!
We are given our reward according to the way we allowed the Lord to use our lives for his glory.
This is why Jesus had to say that by himself he could do nothing,,,he alone he could do no works at all...
It is the father in us that does the works though us.
This is why I cant not wait for my own judgement before the Lord, for it will be a time of my rejoicing and my receiving rewards and blessings!
You know, I sure thought I have already dealt with this question, but let me go over this once again.
The Lost ARE judged and are condemned for their sin.
But the Christian has no sins that are not already covered by the blood of the Lord, therefore our judgement is a time of rejoicing and rewards!!!!!!!
We are given our reward according to the way we allowed the Lord to use our lives for his glory.
This is why Jesus had to say that by himself he could do nothing,,,he alone he could do no works at all...
It is the father in us that does the works though us.
This is why I cant not wait for my own judgement before the Lord, for it will be a time of my rejoicing and my receiving rewards and blessings!
EXCELLENT POST. Berry is so lost in his own manmade junk that he cannot be taught the TRUTH. But we DO keep trying. . .
That is still a judgment according to works--after death--and that for life or ****ation.You know, I sure thought I have already dealt with this question, but let me go over this once again.
The Lost ARE judged and are condemned for their sin.
But the Christian has no sins that are not already covered by the blood of the Lord, therefore our judgement is a time of rejoicing and rewards!!!!!!!
We are given our reward according to the way we allowed the Lord to use our lives for his glory.
That defies faith alone theology.
John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.
2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Could you identify who the "we" are here?
1 Peter 1:16-17---King James Version (KJV)
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, p*** the time of your sojourning here in fear:
Romans 2:5-11----King James Version (KJV)
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
[QUOTE=Valentinus;142346]
[QUOTE] Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
As a Calvinist I believe exactly what I said - God calls and elects us to salvation. He regenerates us and cleanses us in Christ's Blood. There is nothing I can do to be "qualified" to be a Christian.YOUR entire post is 'a little odd' to me.
That's fine. But a non-Mormon proposed this question almost 2 years ago! Why would you ask such a question if there is really nothing that qualifies you as a Christian.
You last statement is a little odd to me considering that in Hebrew faith can be used as a verb. Just a thought.
First off, she NEVER ONCE SAID nothing qualified her as a Christian. She explained with excellent accuracy what JESUS did that qualifies us as Christians. Since you don't seem to understand that, I would have to ask YOU why YOU think YOU are a Christian at all. . .
If you think YOU can 'qualify' to be a Christian WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST, then you are delusional, imho.
BTW, IN ENGLISH faith can be either a noun OR a verb, just as it can be in Hebrew AND GREEK.
Just a thought. . .
And Eph 2:9 says what?That is still a judgment according to works--after death--and that for life or ****ation.
That defies faith alone theology.
John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.
2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Could you identify who the "we" are here?
1 Peter 1:16-17---King James Version (KJV)
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, p*** the time of your sojourning here in fear:
Romans 2:5-11----King James Version (KJV)
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.