My daughter came into town yesterday.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

I don't think you can say that about James, either, since he was once a Mormon. In your haste to bash me, you are actually insulting every ex-Mormon who has since become a Christian.

In case you didn't grasp the meaning of that statement, I was referring to his posts on forums such as this. On the other hand - what have you done Libby? What is your purpose on this forum other than to cause division as Jim has stated? Why would you want to do that?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Apologette

In case you didn't grasp the meaning of that statement, I was referring to his posts on forums such as this. On the other hand - what have you done Libby? What is your purpose on this forum other than to cause division as Jim has stated? Why would you want to do that?

I have not been the cause of any division. That has been Jim's doing. I come here to have conversations about Christianity and Mormonism. Nothing more. James' main purpose, as seems to be yours, is to sit here and make judgments about others.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

I have not been the cause of any division. That has been Jim's doing. I come here to have conversations about Christianity and Mormonism. Nothing more. James' main purpose, as seems to be yours, is to sit here and make judgments about others.

No pandering the LDS isn't a cause of division.. In your case it really isn't a sin.. Sins are committed by those that know and understand the Law.. IHS jim

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by James Banta

No pandering the LDS isn't a cause of division.. In your case it really isn't a sin.. Sins are committed by those that know and understand the Law.. IHS jim

It certainly is! Those who fail to speak out against evil, are guilty of endorsing evil!

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Apologette

It certainly is! Those who fail to speak out against evil, are guilty of endorsing evil!

That is a great Christian definition of pandering and the very thing I believe Libby and now Alan are guilty.. IHS jim

[John T]

Originally Posted by Apologette [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]

It certainly is! Those who fail to speak out against evil, are guilty of endorsing evil!

Originally Posted by James Banta

That is a great Christian definition of pandering and the very thing I believe Libby and now Alan are guilty.. IHS jim

“Vice is a monster of so frightful mien,
As to be hated needs but to be seen;
Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face,
we first endure, then pity, then embrace”



Alexander Pope, Essay on Man 1734
("mien " means face)

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by John T

“Vice is a monster of so frightful mien,
As to be hated needs but to be seen;
Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face,
we first endure, then pity, then embrace”



Alexander Pope, Essay on Man 1734
("mien " means face)

Thanks for the poem John.. As to how it fits into what I was trying to teach... I have no idea.. I think you are missing my meaning as much as I am yours.. IHS jim

[John T]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Thanks for the poem John.. As to how it fits into what I was trying to teach... I have no idea.. I think you are missing my meaning as much as I am yours.. IHS jim

In other words, the result of pandering to evil is to eventually accept it as normal.
First we pity those in sin, then we endure their flashing their evil in our face, finally we accept evil as normal.

Think of the ****sexual agenda and what it is doing, and hopes to eventually accomplish.

[John T]

Originally Posted by Apologette [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]

Excuse me, but when did you become the authority on Christian behavior. Jim has never compromised God's Word to suit the Mormons. In fact, he has always been stalwart in the faith, never double-minded, and always ready to defend the Gospel. Can you say the same?

Originally Posted by Libby

I don't think you can say that about James, either, since he was once a Mormon. In your haste to bash me, you are actually insulting every ex-Mormon who has since become a Christian.

By first being a Mormon, then converting, Jim "compromised" the things in Mormonism because he once was a Mormon.

Because he never has compromised his belief in Christianity since his conversion, Apologette is correct in what she says. I do not believe that you can say the same thing.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by John T

In other words, the result of pandering to evil is to eventually accept it as normal.
First we pity those in sin, then we endure their flashing their evil in our face, finally we accept evil as normal.

Think of the ****sexual agenda and what it is doing, and hopes to eventually accomplish.

I have seen that truth being conducted again and again in the world.. Our movies, music, books and now the internet are filled with terrible evil which the world has accepted as normal behavior. I have to agree with you completely.. IHS jim

[Libby]

Originally Posted by John T

By first being a Mormon, then converting, Jim "compromised" the things in Mormonism because he once was a Mormon.

Because he never has compromised his belief in Christianity since his conversion, Apologette is correct in what she says. I do not believe that you can say the same thing.

No, I cannot. I'm sure I am a hundred times more sinful than James. I have had to repent and correct my path at least a couple of times, since I left Mormonism.

But, James does "compromise his Christianity" everytime he bears false witness against someone. And, he does this fairly regularly, when he misrepresents the things that people believe, especially when it's intentional, as he did with me. At times, he simply lashes out in order to hurt, because his ego has been wounded. We all do this, sometimes. None of us are perfect in our walk. If we are in the spirit, we are loving and kind, joyful and peacemakers. What I see of Christians on these boards (including myself, often), do not reflect those "fruits of the spirit". I see a lot of harshness, blaming, condemning, judging, meanness and even what appears to be hatred, at times. Definitely not good fruit.

[John T]

Originally Posted by Libby

No, I cannot. I'm sure I am a hundred times more sinful than James. I have had to repent and correct my path at least a couple of times, since I left Mormonism.

But, James does "compromise his Christianity" everytime he bears false witness against someone. And, he does this fairly regularly, when he misrepresents the things that people believe, especially when it's intentional, as he did with me. At times, he simply lashes out in order to hurt, because his ego has been wounded. We all do this, sometimes. None of us are perfect in our walk. If we are in the spirit, we are loving and kind, joyful and peacemakers. What I see of Christians on these boards (including myself, often), do not reflect those "fruits of the spirit". I see a lot of harshness, blaming, condemning, judging, meanness and even what appears to be hatred, at times. Definitely not good fruit.

I sincerely hope that you do not believe that I have been harsh in that last statement. I used it as a matter of fact, and not as a matter of condemnation.

As for Jim, he is just a cranky old man (just kidding, Jim!) Seriously, I believe that he has ailments of one sort or another, and THAT tends to make every one of us short with others. Please give him the the same degree of leniency as you would give yourself, Libby.

What he is doing is attempting to save your soul from perdition, and from the remnants of mormonism, and whatever cult you have dabbled in, to help you see that there is no other truth in the Universe than what we have in Jesus Christ, alone.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by John T

I sincerely hope that you do not believe that I have been harsh in that last statement. I used it as a matter of fact, and not as a matter of condemnation.

No, not harsh. As a matter of fact, I was noticing a softening in your soul, as compared to things I had seen you write in the past. I appreciate that.

As for Jim, he is just a cranky old man (just kidding, Jim!) Seriously, I believe that he has ailments of one sort or another, and THAT tends to make every one of us short with others. Please give him the the same degree of leniency as you would give yourself, Libby.

Yes, I know. I need to do that. We all have our burdens to bear. I have known I needed to make peace with James for awhile, now. I've even prayed about it. It's just that he is very difficult...and I can be a little cranky, myself, when I perceive that someone is picking at me. (Yeah, yeah, excuses, excuses ).

What he is doing is attempting to save your soul from perdition, and from the remnants of mormonism, and whatever cult you have dabbled in, to help you see that there is no other truth in the Universe than what we have in Jesus Christ, alone.

I've known that for some time. Only Jesus can save me and, that, he has already done. He has not, however, made me "perfect" yet (and will not, while I am in the flesh)...but he has and does convict me, when I am not doing as I should.

As for James, I think he needs to worry more about his own sins and less about mine. I do forgive him, though, and I would ask that he forgive me, as well.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

I have not been the cause of any division. That has been Jim's doing. I come here to have conversations about Christianity and Mormonism. Nothing more. James' main purpose, as seems to be yours, is to sit here and make judgments about others.

You've caused nothing but division here for a long time. And now you and your pal here have been ganging up on Jim. You have a lingering relationship with Mormonism, and then you went into Hinduism and were defending Yogananda. Exactly what makes you think you should even be on an apologetic site? Don't you think it would be better to get your own theology straightened out before you attack Jim (and me) as being too intolerant? Tell you what, Libby, Mormonism is sending millions to hell - something Jim has faithfully been exposing and fighting for years. Meanwhile, he has not been sitting around chanting goony mantras and luring people to the altar of Yogananda, nor has he been sharing the pedophile, Smith's, destructive doctrines or trying to shape them into something more palatable to the Christian. I don't care if you think I'm too hard on you or not - you had the Gospel of Christ and turned your back on it. Don't come here now and try to straighten others out. True regeneration results in faithfulness to Christ. Ask yourself, Libby, how faithful you have been? Sure, all Christians sin, but all do not embrace doctrines of demons and encourage others to do so. What you need to do is demonstrate some repentance, and I've never seen that at all.

[alanmolstad]

never a kind word from her it seems......

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

never a kind word from her it seems......

You and Libby have really taken over this site and have ganged up on Jim - you should be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of working together with Jim to address the evil that is Mormonism, you both attacked someone who has been very faithful in preaching Christ to Mormons. Jim doesn't compromise the Gospel. Where were you when Libby was over on the Hindu forum here endorsing Hindusim and trying to mix it with Christianity? You were nowhere. Now she's here and doing the same thing with Mormonism. Go get a dictionary and look up the word SYNCRETISM - because that's what is going on here right in front of your nose. You are simply blinded by your own desire to be Mr. Openness! Mr. Conciliatory. You won't have a "kind word" from me if I'm addressing something that is harmful to the Gospel of Christ. There will never be any peace between the teachings of Christ and the doctrines of demons.

[Libby]

Apologette, James is a big boy and he was the one doing the attacking, not me. You find anywhere else on this site where I have ever "attacked" ANYONE. I will defend myself from people like James and YOU, but I will never, ever be the first "offender". People who know me, even most from this site (including Jill) know that is the truth.

I sincerely tried to work it out with James, but he would have no part of it.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

Apologette, James is a big boy and he was the one doing the attacking, not me. You find anywhere else on this site where I have ever "attacked" ANYONE. I will defend myself from people like James and YOU, but I will never, ever be the first "offender". People who know me, even most from this site (including Jill) know that is the truth.

I sincerely tried to work it out with James, but he would have no part of it.

Of course Jim stood against compromise and the emergent church garbage that one sees here. What else can a believer do? You have always caused division, both her and on CARM. Mormonism is a Satanic cult that will lead people to Hell, and you fail to stand against it, but hope that it can somehow be reconciled with Christianity. It cannot be - for Christ will have nothing to do with Satan! You need to examine your motive for posting, and I don't care who you say "knows" you - I've known you, and I've seen the fruit of what you have posted. A faithful Christian like Jim should not be vilified by you, or by anybody else. I've disagreed with Jim on some things, but we have worked those things out. I will never, however, become an emergent church "Christian" who is willing to compromise Christ for the sake of some idiotic concept of "unity."

[Libby]

You have always caused division, both her and on CARM.

That is simply untrue.

You and Jim are extremely divisive with your constant personal attacks. You've been banned from CARM numerous times and from here.

I have no idea what you're talking about, as far as emergent church goes. I know very little about it. I attend a Christian Reformed Church and have for quite some time.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

That is simply untrue.

You and Jim are extremely divisive with your constant personal attacks. You've been banned from CARM numerous times and from here.

I have no idea what you're talking about, as far as emergent church goes. I know very little about it. I attend a Christian Reformed Church and have for quite some time.

Let's take a little stroll back in time:

Libby, two years ago: "This is the organization/religion/church to which I have, fairly recently, returned. It is a church of all religions, but basically considered Hindu/Christian. It was established in 1920 by Paramahansa Yogananda, the first of many to bring eastern religion and thought to the west.

This was an organization I belonged to (studied under) for about three years, back in the 70's, in the beginning of my spiritual journey. I liked it a lot, at the time, but did not appreciate it to the fullest, as I have come to, in these past few months. I believe some further experiences were required, in order for that to happen. As I learn and practice along this path it brings me closer to God and gives me much joy.

I wanted to provide this thread for anyone who would like to explore this path. If you have any questions, which I can answer, I will be happy to try and answer them.

http://www.yogananda-srf.org/"


Ummm, does that cause division and attempt to lure people into a cult which you've "returned to?"

and to go along with this Hindu orientation (everybody is God teaching):

"Not to nitpick (because that was a good post), but I did want to add that I think we are like God, in some ways. He even said that he made us in his image. I don't think he meant "physical image", but rather in his spiritual image. We have a spirit like his, and intelligence and the ability to know good from evil. Without that ability, we could not be held accountable."

Sorry, Libby, we are not all "like God, " and God is Spirit, He does not have a spirit. You are mixing your Hinduism here with Christianity.

And how about all the times you've compromised the Gospel here to pander to and appease Mormons. Go read my thread on the emergent churches, and you'll see what I mean by the term.

[Libby]

I've never denied attending SRF for awhile and sharing that here. Have no idea why you think that would be "divisive". Divisions comes when people start making things personal and attack people personally for what they believe. A healthy debate about various religious beliefs is fine. But, personal attacks are not only divisive, they are against the rules of this board (and CARM).

Sorry, Libby, we are not all "like God"

"God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

I've never denied attending SRF for awhile and sharing that here. Have no idea why you think that would be "divisive". Divisions comes when people start making things personal and attack people personally for what they believe. A healthy debate about various religious beliefs is fine. But, personal attacks are not only divisive, they are against the rules of this board (and CARM).



"God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

Did you ever publicly repent of trying to draw people into Hinduism? You did it publicly, why not repent publicly? And as far as personal attacks go - how about the personal attacks against Jim? How about trying to drive him from here? Don't lecture me about rules.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

I've never denied attending SRF for awhile and sharing that here. Have no idea why you think that would be "divisive". Divisions comes when people start making things personal and attack people personally for what they believe. A healthy debate about various religious beliefs is fine. But, personal attacks are not only divisive, they are against the rules of this board (and CARM).



"God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

But men are not God, as your Yogananda cult teaches, and they never will be - and by the way, the Mormon cult also makes gods out of men.......you seem drawn to that.

[Libby]

Then don't lecture me about things I haven't done and constantly trying to call me to repentance. You always make it personal, Apologette. How about if I call you and James to repentance for all of the nasty comments about me and others here on this board? You have a lot of nerve, considering your own behavior on this board and others.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Apologette

But men are not God, as your Yogananda cult teaches, and they never will be - and by the way, the Mormon cult also makes gods out of men.......you seem drawn to that.

Yes, I have been drawn into some of that, but I do not believe anyone is going to become a "god". There is only One God.