End Times--Mormon style

[Billyray]

When I was LDS I was taught that in the end times things would get really bad then Christ would come back. Is this what Mormons still teach or has the end times doctrine gotten more advanced?

I was also taught that we would gather back to Missouri. Have they dropped this out of the end times scenario?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Billyray

When I was LDS I was taught that in the end times things would get really bad then Christ would come back. Is this what Mormons still teach or has the end times doctrine gotten more advanced?

I was also taught that we would gather back to Missouri. Have they dropped this out of the end times scenario?

The only thing I can remember reading is:

1. Joseph Smith and early Mormonism were Millenialists - and truly believed they were paving the way for Christ's Second Advent.

2. Some Mormons believe that Joseph Smith will also return and lead Mormons to Zion (Missouri). There will be a capital in the Millenial Kingdom in Jerusalem and in Missouri.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

The only thing I can remember reading is:

1. Joseph Smith and early Mormonism were Millenialists - and truly believed they were paving the way for Christ's Second Advent.

2. Some Mormons believe that Joseph Smith will also return and lead Mormons to Zion (Missouri). There will be a capital in the Millenial Kingdom in Jerusalem and in Missouri.

We believe that eventually, Missouri will be established as a place of refuge in the end.

Seeing as the western U.S. is basically one giant caldera 25,000 years past the time it should have ****n (please--do not quote this as a Mormon source, I have NEVER heard this spoken of in Mormon circles)---this is just my own understanding based on going to Yellowstone---what they expect, why it is overdue and what part of the U.S. they expect to be gone...well--Missouri MIGHT be in a safe zone.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

We believe that eventually, Missouri will be established as a place of refuge in the end.

Why do you think that there is such a lack of teaching in end times prophecy in the LDS church especially given the fact that you have so called prophets that should be able to guide you in this area?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Why do you think that there is such a lack of teaching in end times prophecy in the LDS church especially given the fact that you have so called prophets that should be able to guide you in this area?

We speak a lot about end-times stuff as we believe that the restoration of the gospel is end-time stuff.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

We speak a lot about end-times stuff as we believe that the restoration of the gospel is end-time stuff.

Do you believe that there will be a 7 year (or a 3 1/2 year) tribulation period that precedes the second coming of Christ?

Do you believe that there will appear a man called the Antichrist who will lead the world during this tribulation period?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Do you believe that there will be a 7 year (or a 3 1/2 year) tribulation period that precedes the second coming of Christ?

Do you believe that there will appear a man called the Antichrist who will lead the world during this tribulation period?

I believe there will be one main anti-christ and there will be a difficult time prior to the second coming. Which year period is it?

And do you think the four horses spoken of in Revelations have something to do with this? I don't.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I believe there will be one main anti-christ and there will be a difficult time prior to the second coming. Which year period is it?

And do you think the four horses spoken of in Revelations have something to do with this? I don't.

As a note Christians do have varying opinions on end times.

There is a 7 year tribulation but some consider only the last half of this seven years which is 3 1/2 years as the tribulation or great tribulation. And yes the 4 horseman take place during this tribulation period.

What about the Jewish Temple do you believe that it will be rebuilt on the temple mount prior to the second coming?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

As a note Christians do have varying opinions on end times.

There is a 7 year tribulation but some consider only the last half of this seven years which is 3 1/2 years as the tribulation or great tribulation. And yes the 4 horseman take place during this tribulation period.

What about the Jewish Temple do you believe that it will be rebuilt on the temple mount prior to the second coming?

First off, I don't se the seven seals representing 7 years (or 3 and 1/2) years of tribulation.

Second, I don't read the horses taking place in the tribulation.

Third, I do believe the temple will be rebuilt.

I read up on a Christian website regarding the four horsemen and the anti-christ stuff you noted. I don't agree with any of it. (And that is not from LDS teachings or Christian teachings--it strickly has to do with my reading of Revelations. It is not that hard of a read and I think people read into it more than they should.)

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

First off, I don't se the seven seals representing 7 years (or 3 and 1/2) years of tribulation.

Second, I don't read the horses taking place in the tribulation.

Third, I do believe the temple will be rebuilt.

I read up on a Christian website regarding the four horsemen and the anti-christ stuff you noted. I don't agree with any of it. (And that is not from LDS teachings or Christian teachings--it strickly has to do with my reading of Revelations. It is not that hard of a read and I think people read into it more than they should.)

What about the two witnesses what is your belief about them?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

What about the two witnesses what is your belief about them?

What?............

What does that have to do with the four horsemen?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

What?............

The two witnesses in Revelation. What is your take on them?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The two witnesses in Revelation. What is your take on them?

Just as it reads. They will be the start of the quickening/resurrection--I believe as they are resurrected and overcome death. (Although the quickening began officially with Christ.)---some christian websites have it as the jews and gentiles. Some have it as the jews and the "church." Others have the witnesses as symbolizing other things entirely. I think we can safely say from the reading that there will be two witnesses who die, lie in the street, and are resurrected--much to the displeasure of the onlookers.

I have been reading up a little on EV's description of the end-times. I have heard different accounts. I think personally too much time is spent worrying about it as we will all personally experience our own end-time, so to speak.

As far as the Book of Revelations, I believe it gives a grand over-view, not just of the end-times. Do you think it speaks only of the end-times?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I think we can safely say from the reading that there will be two witnesses who die, lie in the street, and are resurrected--much to the displeasure of the onlookers.

Do you believe that these witnesses will witness for 3 1/2 years--which just so happens to be the same length of the great tribulation--witness in and around Jerusalem and then die and lie in the street? Do you believe these two prophets will be Jewish or LDS?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Do you believe that these witnesses will witness for 3 1/2 years--which just so happens to be the same length of the great tribulation--witness in and around Jerusalem and then die and lie in the street? Do you believe these two prophets will be Jewish or LDS?

Billyray---it is amazing to me the lengths you go to change the subject. I guess I can just ***ume that you really have no idea about the four horsemen and therefore are trying to go to a place in revelations that is more spelled out.

What does it matter what I believe regarding the witnesses? I'll I read is that you really don't know what you are talking about regarding the four horsemen and so are changing the subject--and have ignored the other thread we were on and started a completely new one in an attempt to change the subject to what a more comfortable place for you. *sigh*

Here is my last thread from the one that made you uncomfortable enough that you started a new thread:

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Not from Adam to the end times---from the beginning, before the earth until after the earth--the whole thing.

If you read it with that understanding, it makes a lot of sense.

Note to readers: Billyray was discussing the white horse and for some reason decided it was a place he did not want to go---so has created a new thread in an attempts to redirect it another way. *sheesh*

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Billyray---it is amazing to me the lengths you go to change the subject.

I am not trying to change the subject. My intent with this thread was to find out what you and other LDS believe about the end times rather than talk about what I believe.

[Billyray]

http://www.gotquestions.org/two-witnesses.html

Question: "Who are the four horsemen of the apocalypse?"

Answer: The four horsemen of the Apocalypse are described in Revelation chapter 6, verses 1-8. The four horsemen are symbolic descriptions of different events which will take place in the end times. The first horseman of the Apocalypse is mentioned in Revelation 6:2: “I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.” This first horseman likely refers to the Antichrist, who will be given authority and will conquer all who oppose him. The antichrist is the false imitator of the true Christ, who will also return on a white horse (Revelation 19:11-16).

The second horseman of the Apocalypse appears in Revelation 6:4, “Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword.” The second horseman refers to terrible warfare that will break out in the end times. The third horseman is described in Revelation 6:5-6, “...and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, ‘A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!’” The third horseman of the Apocalypse refers to a great famine that will take place, likely as a result of the wars from the second horseman.

The fourth horseman is mentioned in Revelation 6:8, “I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.” The fourth horseman of the Apocalypse is symbolic of death and devastation. It seems to be a combination of the previous horsemen. The fourth horseman of the Apocalypse will bring further warfare and terrible famines along with awful plagues and diseases. What is most amazing, or perhaps terrifying, is that the four horsemen of the Apocalypse are just “precursors” of even worse judgments that come later in the tribulation (Revelation chapters 8–9 and 16).

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Note to readers: Billyray was discussing the white horse and for some reason decided it was a place he did not want to go---so has created a new thread in an attempts to redirect it another way. *sheesh*

I have already given you my view on this BJ that this is the antichrist who will rule during the tribulation. But as I said I don't want this thread to be about my beliefs but about LDS beliefs.

Who do LDS believe is on the white horse?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

What does it matter what I believe regarding the witnesses?

I am simply curious what the LDS point of view is regarding the witnesses. Do you believe these two prophets will be two LDS prophets walking the streets of Jerusalem?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

http://www.gotquestions.org/two-witnesses.html

Question: "Who are the four horsemen of the apocalypse?"

Answer: The four horsemen of the Apocalypse are described in Revelation chapter 6, verses 1-8. The four horsemen are symbolic descriptions of different events which will take place in the end times. The first horseman of the Apocalypse is mentioned in Revelation 6:2: “I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.” This first horseman likely refers to the Antichrist, who will be given authority and will conquer all who oppose him. The antichrist is the false imitator of the true Christ, who will also return on a white horse (Revelation 19:11-16).

The second horseman of the Apocalypse appears in Revelation 6:4, “Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword.” The second horseman refers to terrible warfare that will break out in the end times. The third horseman is described in Revelation 6:5-6, “...and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, ‘A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!’” The third horseman of the Apocalypse refers to a great famine that will take place, likely as a result of the wars from the second horseman.

The fourth horseman is mentioned in Revelation 6:8, “I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.” The fourth horseman of the Apocalypse is symbolic of death and devastation. It seems to be a combination of the previous horsemen. The fourth horseman of the Apocalypse will bring further warfare and terrible famines along with awful plagues and diseases. What is most amazing, or perhaps terrifying, is that the four horsemen of the Apocalypse are just “precursors” of even worse judgments that come later in the tribulation (Revelation chapters 8–9 and 16).

Reading up--not all Christians agree with this. As far as LDS beliefs about the four horsemen---well, like most LDS--we are taught to read, ponder, and pray about the scriptures.

My take is that the four horsemen do not speak of the tribulation but to the world in general from the beginning to the end.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Billyray---it is amazing to me the lengths you go to change the subject. I guess I can just ***ume that you really have no idea about the four horsemen and therefore are trying to go to a place in revelations that is more spelled out.

What does it matter what I believe regarding the witnesses? I'll I read is that you really don't know what you are talking about regarding the four horsemen and so are changing the subject--and have ignored the other thread we were on and started a completely new one in an attempt to change the subject to what a more comfortable place for you. *sigh*

Here is my last thread from the one that made you uncomfortable enough that you started a new thread:



Note to readers: Billyray was discussing the white horse and for some reason decided it was a place he did not want to go---so has created a new thread in an attempts to redirect it another way. *sheesh*

Billy was discussing the Great tribulation.. The coming of the Antichrist and all that is prophesied to happen before the return of Jesus as King.. The two witnesses are part of that.. There has been no change of subject in the discussion.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I am simply curious what the LDS point of view is regarding the witnesses. Do you believe these two prophets will be two LDS prophets walking the streets of Jerusalem?

You do know that the LDS see the seven seal as seven thousand years of God's dealing with men on the earth? Basically the history of man.. I have never seen the results if the seals as described in the Bible occurring in 1,000 year increments but the LDS don't see the seals as end time process.. Their interpretation is quite different than Christian teachings on almost the whole of the Revelation.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I am simply curious what the LDS point of view is regarding the witnesses. Do you believe these two prophets will be two LDS prophets walking the streets of Jerusalem?

You do know that the LDS see the seven seal as seven thousand years of God's dealing with men on the earth? Basically the history of man.. I have never seen the results if the seals as described in the Bible occurring in 1,000 year increments but the LDS don't see the seals as end time process.. Their interpretation is quite different than Christian teachings on almost the whole of the Revelation.. See Cleon Skousen's 1,000 years books series. IHS jim

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by James Banta

You do know that the LDS see the seven seal as seven thousand years of God's dealing with men on the earth?

I don't think I ever heard that when I was LDS. That is interesting. But I wonder how the events and times matches up, I don't see how this would work.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I don't think I ever heard that when I was LDS. That is interesting. But I wonder how the events and times matches up, I don't see how this would work.

Like most all of their Biblical interpretation IT DOESN'T WORK.. Just in case there is a bit of a push back on "An ANTI mormon telling them what their church teaches here is my authority right from LDS.org "John recorded seeing a book sealed with seven seals, each seal representing one thousand years of the earth’s temporal history (Study Helps/The Guide to the Scriptures/
Revelation of John). I doubt that all LDS understand what their church teaches about the Seven Seals that only the Lamb is worthy to break open.. IHS jim