Today I Stand with the Mormons

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Billyray, you have said you are incapable of keeping even the list of commandments I gave you---one of which was being honest. So, from that point---I can ***ume that you do not see yourself as capable of being honest and therefore, there is no reason for me to trust you.

Can you keep the commandments?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I don't ***ume you are wrong. I know you are..

That is the problem with those who are wrong and ***ume that they are right because they will never ever see the error of their ways. You believe in a false gospel and strange gods but you ***ume that what you are being taught is the truth and what Christians tell you is false and because of this you will remain blind and will endure an eterity in hell if you persist on this course.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Can you keep the commandments?

I understand that with God's help, all things are possible. So, I recognize that when I fail--it is not God who fails, but my faith is lacking.

Can I be 100% honest. Yes

Can I be baptized. Yes

Can I never steal or cheat someone is business. Yes

What areas do I need to strengthen my faith? In the areas of love and kindness. Do I see improvement as I place my faith in Christ--absolutely.

But, Billyray, you seem to think that any area in which you are lacking means that you can't keep any of the commandments---to you there is perfectly are not at all. I say balogna. God wants us to do our best to love him and keep his commandments. He wants us to have faith that with his help we can overcome all of our weaknesses and sins. You call this santification for yourself, but to Mormons who believe likewise, you criticize and mock acting as if all commandments can't be kept than no commandments are worth trying to keep.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I understand that with God's help, all things are possible. .

So you believe that you can keep the commandments perfectly. Correct?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

That is the problem with those who are wrong and ***ume that they are right because they will never ever see the error of their ways. You believe in a false gospel and strange gods but you ***ume that what you are being taught is the truth and what Christians tell you is false and because of this you will remain blind and will endure an eterity in hell if you persist on this course.

No---I can see that it is a l.ie to tell a teen that good works will naturally flow from them. I know that being chaste takes courage and a lot of faith (even for the believer). I know not only from my own experience, but from examples like these teens who are fornicating, that you are leading them astray. They will pick up heart ache and STDs until they figure out that they have been sold a bill of goods.

And as noted--once again, when real life does not back you--you begin making personal comments at me.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Can I be 100% honest. Yes

Well you have failed with this one is just the last 20 minutes when you falsely attributed something to me that you knew was false.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So you believe that you can keep the commandments perfectly. Correct?

Billyray, do you see you add words that are not in the Bible. "perfectly" is an example. "proper" after the word "temple" is another. You have to change the very wording of the Bible to get it to fit with your theology.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

No---I can see that it is a l.ie to tell a teen that good works will naturally flow from them.

It is not a lie to tell anyone that those who are truly born again will have a radically changed life and that their life will get progressively more and more Christlike over time. If they think that they are born again and live like hell then they are not likely born again and they should examine themself.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Well you have failed with this one is just the last 20 minutes when you falsely attributed something to me that you knew was false.

Nope---you just changed your position and so I accepted it---when you changed back, I accepted it again.

I just have never figured out which one you believe---either that good works flow naturally from the born again believer or that the born again believer can be fornicating.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Billyray, do you see you add words that are not in the Bible. "perfectly" is an example. "proper" after the word "temple" is another. You have to change the very wording of the Bible to get it to fit with your theology.

If you don't keep all of the commandments are you keeping the commandments?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Nope---you just changed your position and so I accepted it---when you changed back, I accepted it again.

I didn't change my positon rather you falsely attributed something to me that I never said. Which is par for the course with you and then you have the nerve to tell me you can be 100% honest. You are no different than the rich guy who thinks that he can keep all of the commandments.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

If you don't keep all of the commandments are you keeping the commandments?

Billyray---is the word "perfectly"in the Bible after keep the commandments? Or do you accept that we are purified by Christ?

See, for yourself, you accept the condition that one must be purified over time (but I ***ume that in that purification process...one is doing better and better at keeping the commandments.)

But then for others, you sit and point a finger saying that keeping the commandments must be an all or nothing proposition.

Why do you have one standard for yourselves and then put a different standard on others?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I didn't change my positon rather you falsely attributed something to me that I never said. Which is par for the course with you and then you have the nerve to tell me you can be 100% honest. You are no different than the rich guy who thinks that he can keep all of the commandments.

Billyray---I merely accepted what you said regarding yourself and Piper..that good works flow from the believer--that they are transformed. If I have made any error is that I didn't know you wanted to keep having it both ways.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

If I have made any error is that I didn't know you wanted to keep having it both ways.

Where did I ever say that none of the 80% were born again?

The problem is that I could never ever give you a specific from a generic group of people.

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Where did I ever say that none of the 80% were born again?

When you stated that being born again---good works naturally flow as the Holy Ghost directs. I guess I was wrong to ***ume then, that based on this professed belief and your insistence on Piper who states that those who are born again are transformed---that fornicators would be among this group.

The problem is that I could never ever give you a specific from a generic group of people.

Then why do you give a generic specific belief that things will naturally just flow when you have evidence to the contrary?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

When you stated that being born again---good works naturally flow as the Holy Ghost directs.

Quote me where I ever said that NONE of the 80% were born again. I couldn't possibly make that claim because I have no idea any of the details about any of the people in the survey. And as far as what Piper said is that the survey ***umed that those who called themself born again were really born again which of course he took issue with.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Then why do you give a generic specific belief that things will naturally just flow when you have evidence to the contrary?

Because we know this from real life and we know this from the scriptures.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Quote me where I ever said that NONE of the 80% were born again. I couldn't possibly make that claim because I have no idea any of the details about any of the people in the survey. And as far as what Piper said is that the survey ***umed that those who called themself born again were really born again which of course he took issue with.

Okay--you were the one who kept claiming Piper. I guess I was wrong to ***ume that you aligned with Piper. You do believe that some of the 80% of teens who promised chas***y but became fornicators are born again.

So, how do you believe that those of this group who are fornicators are born again---how is that good works naturally flowing in them?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Okay--you were the one who kept claiming Piper. I guess I was wrong to ***ume that you aligned with Piper. You do believe that some of the 80% of teens who promised chas***y but became fornicators are born again.

I can't possibly say who is and who is not born again from a generic study. How could I possibly make that determination?

100% LDS sin who in that group will be exalted?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I can't possibly say who is and who is not born again from a generic study. How could I possibly make that determination?

100% LDS sin who in that group will be exalted?

I could tell you that 100% of LDS who are in the process of fornicating are not following the Holy Ghost or having good works naturally flow from them as you claim your group to be.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I could tell you that 100% of LDS who are in the process of fornicating are not following the Holy Ghost or having good works naturally flow from them as you claim your group to be.

What about Joseph Smith?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I could tell you that 100% of LDS who are in the process of fornicating are not following the Holy Ghost or having good works naturally flow from them as you claim your group to be.

So some sins are OK with God and other sins are not OK? Is that what you are trying to tell me?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So some sins are OK with God and other sins are not OK? Is that what you are trying to tell me?

You are changing the subject here Billyray. First you claim that good works naturally flow from the believer---now you are busy making excuses for their sinning. Which is it?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

You are changing the subject here Billyray.

Not at all. Are some sins OK with God and some sins not OK?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

First you claim that good works naturally flow from the believer---now you are busy making excuses for their sinning. Which is it?

Have I ever said that a born again believer never sins? Is that the standard by which you ***ume for a born again believer?