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Thread: Chromosones. Where did they come from?

  1. #26
    seebok
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    So, IS the Holy Spirit (who is spirit without a body, even in LDS theology) just a "mere wisp" to you?
    BTW: I'm still waiting for you to justify the metaphysics of your wisp God. Once you do that and convince me of what is "correct", I suspect my "old" beliefs will naturally fall by the wayside.

    s

  2. #27
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by seebok View Post
    BTW: I'm still waiting for you to justify the metaphysics of your wisp God. Once you do that and convince me of what is "correct", I suspect my "old" beliefs will naturally fall by the wayside.

    s
    No, I think you will cling to your beliefs, in spite of any evidence to the contrary. Far be it from me to interfere.

    Best wishes.

  3. #28
    seebok
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    No, I think you will cling to your beliefs, in spite of any evidence to the contrary. Far be it from me to interfere.

    Best wishes.
    Hey, you never did tell us where you landed most recently in your musical chairs does religion initiative. Let us know.

    s.

  4. #29
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by seebok View Post
    Hey, you never did tell us where you landed most recently in your musical chairs does religion initiative. Let us know.

    s.
    No thanks.

    Have a nice evening, Seekbok.

  5. #30
    Vlad III
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    No thanks.

    Have a nice evening, Seekbok.
    Hello,

    I've been following this conversation and I was wondering the same thing, Libby. It is easy to tell who the LDS are, but what church/ denomination do you affiliate with?

  6. #31
    Libby
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    Hi Vlad....welcome to the board.

    I am currently attending an Evangelical Church called Eastside Christian. I am contemplating a move to another Christian denom that is not Evangelical. I'm not ready to discuss it, because I'm still investigating.

  7. #32
    Leslie
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    I'm not sure if Seebok really is a Mormon because he won't tell us what his beliefs really ARE.

  8. #33
    seebok
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
    I'm not sure if Seebok really is a Mormon because he won't tell us what his beliefs really ARE.
    Still waiting on a little forthrightness from you Leslie. It's about time you stopped evading and justified Your Father, who is not a father, Son who is not a son, and Spirit who is not a spirit. It's like you redefine every Christian term there is.

    s.

  9. #34
    Leslie
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    Quote Originally Posted by seebok View Post
    Still waiting on a little forthrightness from you Leslie. It's about time you stopped evading and justified Your Father, who is not a father, Son who is not a son, and Spirit who is not a spirit. It's like you redefine every Christian term there is.

    s.
    Sir, Joseph Smith was the one who redefined every Christian term there is.

  10. #35
    nrajeff
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    So, IS the Holy Spirit (who is spirit without a body, even in LDS theology) just a "mere wisp" to you?
    ----No, because LDS believe the Holy Spirit to be a being and a person in His own right. An individual person with thoughts, feelings, etc. LDS believe that spirits are people, too, in other words.

  11. #36
    Leslie
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeff View Post
    ----No, because LDS believe the Holy Spirit to be a being and a person in His own right. An individual person with thoughts, feelings, etc. LDS believe that spirits are people, too, in other words.
    Christians believe that the Holy Spirit is a person too, only we fully believe that he is fully God, just as much as the Father and Son are God.

  12. #37
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeff View Post
    ----No, because LDS believe the Holy Spirit to be a being and a person in His own right. An individual person with thoughts, feelings, etc. LDS believe that spirits are people, too, in other words.
    Yes, but LDS believe that the Holy Ghost is spirit only...no body, at least, not for the time being. Seebok is trying to make some kind of bogus point about a God without a body, and how it must be some kind of a "wisp" of a God, which is silly.

  13. #38
    stemelbow
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Yes, but LDS believe that the Holy Ghost is spirit only...no body, at least, not for the time being. Seebok is trying to make some kind of bogus point about a God without a body, and how it must be some kind of a "wisp" of a God, which is silly.
    I fail to see how seebok's point is silly. Perhaps you just misunderstand. He makes a pretty good point I'd say. The Holy Ghost in LDS belief is spirit only but spirit to LDS is made up of actual matter.

    love,
    stem

  14. #39
    Leslie
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    Quote Originally Posted by stemelbow View Post
    I fail to see how seebok's point is silly. Perhaps you just misunderstand. He makes a pretty good point I'd say. The Holy Ghost in LDS belief is spirit only but spirit to LDS is made up of actual matter.

    love,
    stem
    Ok, now prove that it's Biblical?

  15. #40
    stemelbow
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    I have never claimed that God is limited to the Bible, Leslie.

    love,
    stem

  16. #41
    Leslie
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    Quote Originally Posted by stemelbow View Post
    I have never claimed that God is limited to the Bible, Leslie.

    love,
    stem
    But does God contradict the Bible?

  17. #42
    stemelbow
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    No. But can He expand beyond the teachings of the Bible? of course.

    love,
    stem

  18. #43
    Leslie
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    Quote Originally Posted by stemelbow View Post
    No. But can He expand beyond the teachings of the Bible? of course.

    love,
    stem
    But the thing is, how do I know that he did that? By comparing it to what I know he DID say, right?

  19. #44
    stemelbow
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
    But the thing is, how do I know that he did that?
    By the same way you know the Bible is God's word--faith given of Him and inspiration provided by the Holy Ghost.

    By comparing it to what I know he DID say, right?
    Sure in part. The thing is even Peter suggested people misunderstand scripture. You can't rely on scripture alone for that reason.

    love,
    stem

  20. #45
    Columcille
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    Default 1x/46 + 45/46= not Jesus of the N.T.

    Quote Originally Posted by seebok View Post
    Leslie

    Sorry you believe God is merely a ubiquitous wisp from another dimension.

    So the Father both created and positioned in our physical universe Christ's 23 male chromosomes. The alternative is God does magic. Most Evangelicals who think about these things reject magic, and try to understand the mechanism, contemplating that God in is and through all things literally or via an inter-dimensional ability and so can be and act everywhere instantaneously. So either you believe in 1) magic, which isn't very comforting, 2) you believe God literally is everywhere (if He is everywhere He must be everything), or 3) God's dimension shadows every point in our time and space and so He can open a window if you will, to act.

    So which do you choose?

    Any way you p**** it, you believe there was an incestuous encounter -- Father gets daughter pregnant. Sorry. But you're interest in mechanisms so I encourage you to fill us all in since mechanism is paramount to you and not the reality of the Godly lineage of Christ.

    Evangelicals need to get their minds off salacious things.

    s.

    Since I believe in the immaculate conception of Mary, I would theorize that the necessary "y" chromosome for Jesus might possibly come from Mary hosting it in the mtDNA. This would satisfy a more complete fully human Christ, while still maintaining his full nature as God. Christ is the seed of David, and as such the "y" must have been maintained in Mary and the covering of the Holy Spirit was not a "y" seed of God.

    If the "y" chromosome is not fully human, being provided by God the Father or by the Holy Spirit, then Christ could not have possibly died on the cross. If you think of it in terms of any parts of God being eternal, whereas the life of a human body is temporal, then any fraction or divisibility would generate an eternal body within the temporal. For instance, say "infinity" is "x," and 1 * "infinity" will be "infinity;" if 1x/46 + 45/46= 1 Christ, then the "x" factor "infinity" would give Jesus all the characteristics of Diety to include eternal life, eternal knowledge. As such, his life on earth did not give him such. So his divinity and his humanity are completely seperate, yet joined. Christ had two wills, two natures present at all times.

  21. #46
    Russ
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeff View Post
    ---The Person of the Father, according to the New Testament.



    ---The Bible doesn't give us many details on HOW it happened--the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, whatever that means, and the next thing you know, Mary is pregnant and her baby's father is the Person Jesus would later call "My Father in Heaven." Even thought the details on HOW it happened are few, and vague, one thing that seems clear is WHO Jesus' Father is. And it ain't the Holy Ghost.
    How come no Mormon has admitted to the LDS belief that God and Mother God "procreated" Jesus, Satan and all of us as "spirit siblings" in the preexistence?

    Kinda seems like you're hiding the details.

  22. #47
    nrajeff
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ View Post
    How come no Mormon has admitted to the LDS belief that God and Mother God "procreated" Jesus, Satan and all of us as "spirit siblings" in the preexistence?
    --I can admit that, no problem. Heck our OFFICIAL PROCLAMATION says it, and we're hardly trying to suppress that document. Do yer homework, Russ, so that you can teach your little cl*** with a semblance of credibility. But how is that on-topic with the Nativity? In case you are confused (I know it's a remote possibility), the Nativity didn't take place in the preexistence. Are you trying to hide the details of how you believe that The Holy Spirit is the real father of Jesus?

  23. #48
    Russ
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeff View Post
    --I can admit that, no problem. Heck our OFFICIAL PROCLAMATION says it, and we're hardly trying to suppress that document. Do yer homework, Russ, so that you can teach your little cl*** with a semblance of credibility. But how is that on-topic with the Nativity? In case you are confused (I know it's a remote possibility), the Nativity didn't take place in the preexistence. Are you trying to hide the details of how you believe that The Holy Spirit is the real father of Jesus?
    Oh, sorry. I see now that I used verbiage I shouldn't have. Rather than "why is no Mormon admitting" to the LDS concept of God, Mother God, procreation of spirit children and Eternal Progression, what I meant to ask is "why is no Mormon" introducing it here in discussion as a core LDS belief for people to inspect and then accept or reject?

    You never told me about Eternal Progression. Seebok never told me. The Mormon missionaries never told me. I never heard the whole LDS story from General Conference. My Mormon neighbors didn't tell me. I've visited Temple Square, the Lion House, the Beehive House, the Joseph Smith Memorial building and none of them told me.

    I've done my homework, thank you!

    Cl*** outline on Eternal Progression:

    http://www.mormondoctrine.net/outlin...rogression.htm
    Last edited by Russ; 12-16-2008 at 03:07 PM.

  24. #49
    Russ
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    Quote Originally Posted by seebok View Post
    You are confusing sex with the delivery system, as of course our sexually fixated society is prone to do. I encourage to you think less salaciously and more precisely in this delicate dialog.

    s.
    Some Mormons I've known point out that the mechanism of LDS procreation of spirit-babies is not known and therefore physical union should not be ***umed.

    Other Mormons I've known were raised knowing that celestial sex in the eternities is a surety.

    It depends on whether one is talking with an internet Mormon or a chapel Mormon.

    A chapel Mormon believes Bruce McConkie.
    What does "the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" mean? McConkie has no hesitation:

    God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says.


    An internet Mormon follows BYU professors, FARMS and FAIR, the more "educated," I guess, and tries to distance himself from McConkie.

  25. #50
    Russ
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacG View Post
    Seebok,

    Greetings. I am wondering if you'd take a shot at these questions:

    Where did Adam get his chromosones?

    Because Eve was taken out of Adam did he have only 46 or 92?

    Blessings,

    MacG
    MacG,

    LDS authority Bruce R. McConkie wrote the following:

    These name-***les all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood literally. Only means only; Begotten means begotten; and Son means son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers. -emphasis added

    I like to ask Mormons: How were you begotten?

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