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Thread: Does obedience to the commandments carry any eternal consequences?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Man View Post
    # I think you mean all things of this Earth. Right ?
    Right...sorry, keep thinking in terms of our own lives and our own experience--not that of Satan and his followers.

    I'm not sure that I understand what you mean, here.

    Please clarify. Your message came through a little garbled, to me.
    I am trying to say that after death, we have two positions we can be in---either behind Christ as he makes intercession for us with God the Father (who's atonement will cover out repentant sins) or alone and without Christ because we would not accept his atonement or intercession. This is the great sorting done separating the wheat and the tares...but God judges both the just and the unjust and the unjust will die and be resurrected and judged as well (but all in their order).


    Without the resurrection of Jesus Christ, none of us would have been or will be resurrected.
    Father JD states that it is not because of Jesus Christ that we are resurrected. I am not sure how he can intrepret any of Romans if he doesn't believe that because this Romans Chapter 15 hinges on that fact.
    Last edited by BigJulie; 05-15-2009 at 04:00 PM.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I am trying to say that after death, we have two positions we can be in---either behind Christ as he makes intercession for us with God the Father (whose atonement will cover our repentant sins) or alone and without Christ because we would not accept his atonement or intercession.
    I agree, and I'm glad you added that part about our "repentant" sins.

    Our Lord is not going to make up for sins for which we have not repented.

    Some people may not like that idea, but that is true.

    This is the great sorting done separating the wheat and the tares...but God judges both the just and the unjust and the unjust will die and be resurrected and judged as well (but all in their order).
    Right, and I'm glad you added that part about "all in our order".

    Some will receive telestial glory, some terrestrial, and some celestial glory.

    ... and some will receive no more glory than we/they have now on Earth.

    Father JD states that it is not because of Jesus Christ that we are resurrected. I am not sure how he can interpret any of Romans if he doesn't believe that because this Romans Chapter 15 hinges on that fact.
    I don't know either, but I know how he should be doing it if he wants to know what God meant when God said what God said.

    When I want to know how to correctly interpret the scriptures, I ask God to TELL me how to correctly interpret the scriptures, and I recommend that everyone else do the same thing.
    Last edited by Bat-Man; 05-15-2009 at 04:33 PM.

  3. #28
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    I'm still not talking to Father_JD because I don't approve of how rude he is.
    Now don't be in a tizzy, Bat Man, and run and hide like Mr. Maklelan.

  4. #29
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    Originally Posted by Father_JD

    Christ does NOT SAVE everything God the Father created. You do NOT know the Bible, you do NOT understand it, but your corrupted Mormon understanding of it. Jesus said that He did NOT PRAY FOR THE WORLD, but only for those whom the Father had given Him.

    A difference in your an my intrepretation of the Bible. I believe that God put all things under Jesus feet meaning all has been given to him. I also understand that Jesus will only make intercession for those who have chosen to follow him and this is what Christ presents to God at the final judgement. I see how you intrepret it, I just disagree.
    Yes, my "interpretation" is based upon a contextual reading of the Bible, yours is based upon Mormon doctrine/beliefs and superimposed onto the Biblical text thereby skewing your understanding of it.



    Quote:The p***age is not teaching resurrection is a form of "salvation". That's your kooky Mormon interpretation at work here.

    Thank you for the put-downs.
    It is what it is, Julie. Only LDS interpret "resurrection" as SALVATION, thereby skewing the intended meaning of the Biblical authors.



    Quote:
    Yes, it's completely possible without Christ because God can resurrect whomever He chooses to do so.

    And this is another main difference of your intrepretations and beliefs and mine. Unlike you, I do not believe we would be resurrected if it was not for the atonement and resurrection of Christ.
    So you believe and you're welcome to your beliefs...just understand that they're NOT based upon the Bible, but upon anti-Biblical Mormon beliefs.


    Quote:
    The wicked are a part of the "Second Resurrection" and are thrown into the lake of fire. The "Second " is NOT some kind of salvation, ie.

    Christ speaks of a greater ****ation which indicates that there is a lesser ****ation. As you stated that there are different rewards, there are also different degrees of salvation.
    No, there are differing degrees of rewards in Heaven, and differing degrees of punishment in Hell. Being in the LAKE OF FIRE can NOT be construed to be some kind of "lesser salvation".



    Quote:
    Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and by sin; and so p***ed upon all men, for that all have sinned:


    Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.


    Rom 5:14 Nevertheless reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.


    Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be , much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.


    Rom 5:16 And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.


    Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)


    Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.


    Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


    Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:


    Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto , even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Quote:
    The p***age isn't teaching that ALL men (and women) will be justified, but is teaching that as the first Adam brought and destruction, the "second" Adam, i.e. Christ brings the free justification on those whom Christ will make righteous. The key is the next verse right after your "proof-text".

    I can see how you read it the way you do, but I don't. I see a broader vision in which Paul is teaching how we are saved.
    You don't, because you're reading the texts through Mormon-colored lenses which distort the intended meaning of Paul.


    Quote:
    It has to do with Paul's contrasting Adam with Jesus and Greek usage. You've ignored the earlier verses in which is clearly states that SOME have been given the "gift by grace", which means others have NOT been given this.

    It speaks to the grace unto physical salvation or grace unto spiritual salvation. Paul teaches how we overcame physical and makes a comparison to how we overcome spiritual . For by one man came and so by one man came life....but because more than one man is a sinner and there are many sins, it is an amazing gift that by one man all these many sins were covered. This is a direct comparison so that the righteous can appreciate the full scope of what Christ did. I sorry I do not read this as you do. It says be one man all die and by one man all live and then goes on to speak of how this now applies to sin and spiritual . Do you want me to take this line by line with you so you can see how I read it?
    How many times do I have to explain this to you? You're ignoring the QUALIFIERS:

    In Adam: means everyone.
    In Christ: means ONLY THOSE REDEEMED IN HIM.

    Got it now?




    Quote:
    You keep ignoring the Bible's dire warning of those who are of the "Second ". Christ's atonement is NOT efficacious for ****ed people's resurrection. THEY GO TO HELL, AND THEN THE LAKE OF FIRE. You've gotta READ the whole of the Bible, dear.

    I do and I also realize how God's grace applies to even the ****ed. Do you believe that all the ****ed are sons of perdition?
    Yep. Amazing how you refuse to engage these very serious verses which clearly teach the eternal destiny of the Lost.

    Quote:
    There is NO salvation in the physical sense FOR THE ****ED. THEY GO TO THE LAKE OF FIRE. Deal with THAT.

    After they have been saved which is why this is called the second .
    No, the "Second " refers to the eternal, one-way direction of the Lost. The "first" refers to physical . Saved people do NOT go to the Lake Of Fire.



    Quote:
    This has nothing to do with bizarre Mormon "interpretations" of the Bible.

    Thank you for the put-downs again.
    BiZarre is what bizarre does, Julie.
    Last edited by Father_JD; 05-16-2009 at 11:48 AM.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraftedIn73 View Post

    Hi Fig, I'll try to answer your question from my understanding of scripture.

    No one can ignore the commandments of God, without committing sin. In other words, ignoring or breaking God's commandments IS what sin is.

    The two greatest commandments are to love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus Himself said that ALL the commandments hang on these two.

    Paul reiterated this thought in Galatians 5:22-23, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

    Taking these p***ages into consideration, I believe that anyone who has truly been transformed by the Holy Spirit, will bring forth the fruit of the Spirit and will in so doing, fulfill the two greatest commandments Jesus spoke of.

    How does this relate to repentance and baptism?

    Repentance: I believe that the very ability to repent is a work of the Spirit of God in the heart of a person. When God's Spirit has effectually convicted a person of their sinfulness, and they have understood the Gospel message of forgiveness in Christ, the response IS repentance. If there is no repentance in a person, they have not been effectually convicted and have not believed the gospel.

    Baptism: If a person has been effectually convicted by the Holy Spirit and believed the Gospel, they will be led of the Spirit to please the Lord in all they do. This is the fruit of the Spirit that Paul taught about in Galatians. If a person CLAIMS to have been convicted by God, CLAIMS to have repented of their sins, CLAIMS to have believed the Gospel, and yet stubbornly refuses to follow the Lord in baptism, I would seriously question the validity of their claims. If a person WILLFULLY REFUSES to honor the Lord, what evidence is there that they are obeying the command to love the Lord with all their heart, soul, mind and strength? If however, there are circumstances that PREVENT an otherwise willing person from following the Lord in baptism, i.e. thief on the cross type of scenarios as one example, or a terminally ill bed-ridden person who at long last believes, in these cases it is evident that the Lord forgives them and accepts them.

    GI73
    Nice reply

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    Originally Posted by Father_JD
    (I put the heading, just so you know I am directing this post to your earlier post.)

    In a post I made to Bat-man, I went step by step through Romans 15. Do you care to go through it step by step with me so we may have a clear discussion on what you see when you read it verses what I do?

    Also, if you don't stop the put-downs, I will just end the conversation. I love you, but not that much.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    (I put the heading, just so you know I am directing this post to your earlier post.)

    In a post I made to Bat-man, I went step by step through Romans 15. Do you care to go through it step by step with me so we may have a clear discussion on what you see when you read it verses what I do?

    Also, if you don't stop the put-downs, I will just end the conversation. I love you, but not that much.
    By ALL means, let's go through it step by step which will make us both have to engage CONTEXT.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    By ALL means, let's go through it step by step which will make us both have to engage CONTEXT.

    Okay, here is the one I did earlier.


    Quote:
    Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and by sin; and so p***ed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Because Adam sinned, his consequences where p***ed on to everyone and all reap the consequence of this sin.


    Quote:
    Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    Adam brought the law of death unto the world, but Adam's sin is not upon us when that law (the one that brought death unto the world) is not in force.



    Quote:
    Rom 5:14 Nevertheless reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

    Yet, man has reaped the reward (or consequence) of Adam's sin even though they haven't sinned the same sin Adam did, which will be like Christ when he comes, paying a price for a sin he hasn't committed.


    Quote:
    Rom 5:16 And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.

    So, because Adam transgressed, all get to pay the price or consequence of his actions---so the judgement of one (Adam) is brought to all of us, but the gift that Christ gives us covers more than just Adam's offenses.


    Quote:
    Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

    So, if we are subject to the consequence of Adam and we receive this grace to overcome this sin of Adam's--how much more of grace have we received that one man not only takes on the sin of Adam, but all of our sins or many sins.



    Quote:
    Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

    So because of Adam's sin, we all receive the consequences, but it was the righteousness of one (Christ) that all of us are justified against this consequence....



    Quote:
    Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    ... and the consequences that came about because of Adam's transgressions which gave us the opportunity to sin ourselves (which we did and do), yet because of Christ who is also one man, we also have the opportunity (as we did with Adam to sin) to be righteous with Christ.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now, you do yours and we can compare, step by step.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Okay, here is the one I did earlier.


    Quote:
    Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and by sin; and so p***ed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Because Adam sinned, his consequences where p***ed on to everyone and all reap the consequence of this sin.


    Quote:
    Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    Adam brought the law of death unto the world, but Adam's sin is not upon us when that law (the one that brought death unto the world) is not in force.



    Quote:
    Rom 5:14 Nevertheless reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

    Yet, man has reaped the reward (or consequence) of Adam's sin even though they haven't sinned the same sin Adam did, which will be like Christ when he comes, paying a price for a sin he hasn't committed.


    Quote:
    Rom 5:16 And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.

    So, because Adam transgressed, all get to pay the price or consequence of his actions---so the judgement of one (Adam) is brought to all of us, but the gift that Christ gives us covers more than just Adam's offenses.


    Quote:
    Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

    So, if we are subject to the consequence of Adam and we receive this grace to overcome this sin of Adam's--how much more of grace have we received that one man not only takes on the sin of Adam, but all of our sins or many sins.



    Quote:
    Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

    So because of Adam's sin, we all receive the consequences, but it was the righteousness of one (Christ) that all of us are justified against this consequence....



    Quote:
    Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    ... and the consequences that came about because of Adam's transgressions which gave us the opportunity to sin ourselves (which we did and do), yet because of Christ who is also one man, we also have the opportunity (as we did with Adam to sin) to be righteous with Christ.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now, you do yours and we can compare, step by step.
    Nice try, BigJulie, but Father_JD will simply come back and tell you that he doesn't agree with your interpretation, in certain aspects, and he will continue to not agree with your interpretation until you agree perfectly with his interpretation.

    Thus, if you stick to your guns and Father_JD sticks to his guns, you'll both end up essentially in a stand off, until maybe one of you drops your guns and just gives in to what the other person is saying.

    ... and the person who holds out the longest isn't necessarily going to be the one with the correct interpretation.

    You could both end up sticking to your guns, with one of you being right and the other one of you being wrong, and in the end getting what you each chose to receive.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Man View Post
    Nice try, BigJulie, but Father_JD will simply come back and tell you that he doesn't agree with your interpretation, in certain aspects, and he will continue to not agree with your interpretation until you agree perfectly with his interpretation.

    Thus, if you stick to your guns and Father_JD sticks to his guns, you'll both end up essentially in a stand off, until maybe one of you drops your guns and just gives in to what the other person is saying.

    ... and the person who holds out the longest isn't necessarily going to be the one with the correct interpretation.

    You could both end up sticking to your guns, with one of you being right and the other one of you being wrong, and in the end getting what you each chose to receive.

    I think it will be interesting to see how he interprets this line by line. As with the discussion of "the wind listeth..." they have not been willing to show a congruent conversation Christ was having with Nicodemus...they take one line and put it with lines from other scriptures, but do not continue explaining how the conversation then is congruent. I would like to see what he says with this. If we agree to disagree, then so be it.

  11. #36
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    No, I will keep demonstrating the VALIDITY of historic Christianity's "interpretation" BY THE CONTEXT and you and BigJulie can only engage in special pleading of "latter-day revelation" as to WHY you interpret the way you do!

    In other words, your interpretations can NOT be demonstrated from the Bible ALONE.

  12. #37
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    Originally Posted by Father_JD
    By ALL means, let's go through it step by step which will make us both have to engage CONTEXT.


    Okay, here is the one I did earlier.


    Quote:
    Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and by sin; and so p***ed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Because Adam sinned, his consequences where p***ed on to everyone and all reap the consequence of this sin.
    And you mean what by this? That this sin is merely physical ?? How about it's meaning Original Sin, whereby we're % in tresp*** and sin" and can NOT help but sin?


    Quote:
    Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    Adam brought the law of unto the world, but Adam's sin is not upon us when that law (the one that brought unto the world) is not in force.
    But in the following verse, Paul demonstrates that law was in force, hence


    Quote:
    Rom 5:14 Nevertheless reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

    Yet, man has reaped the reward (or consequence) of Adam's sin even though they haven't sinned the same sin Adam did, which will be like Christ when he comes, paying a price for a sin he hasn't committed.
    Huh? Where in the text does it state that when Christ comes, He'll "pay(ing) a price for a sin He hasn't committed"??? Paul is continuing his parallelism between Adam and Christ.


    Quote:
    Rom 5:16 And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.

    So, because Adam transgressed, all get to pay the price or consequence of his actions---so the judgement of one (Adam) is brought to all of us, but the gift that Christ gives us covers more than just Adam's offenses.
    Remember, it's not just about physical , but of spiritual as well: judgment of CONDEMNATION but JUSTIFICATION (forensic, meaning legally deemed as righteous...declared guilt-free) as a FREE GIFT.


    Quote:
    Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

    we are subject to the consequence of Adam and we receive this grace to overcome this sin of Adam's--how much more of grace have we received that one man not only takes on the sin of Adam, but all of our sins or many sins.

    The text is not saying about His "taking on the sin of Adam" or "all our sins or many sins", but that by GRACE, people will receive the GIFT of RIGHTEOUSNESS, i.e. ETERNAL LIFE.



    Quote:
    Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

    use f Adam's sin, we all receive the consequences, but it was the righteousness of one (Christ) that all of us are justified against this consequence....
    As seen per verse 17, justification is a GIFT upon "us", i.e. the REDEEMED in Christ. I've already explained that Paul is NOT saying that categorically everyone will be "justified".



    Quote:
    Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    the consequences that came about because of Adam's transgressions which gave us the opportunity to sin ourselves (which we did and do), yet because of Christ who is also one man, we also have the opportunity (as we did with Adam to sin) to be righteous with Christ.
    Already explained this to you. Paul's preserving his parallelism, but "many" as in being made sinners does mean everyone, but the "many" made righteous can ONLY refer to those who are "in Christ".


    Now you do yours and we can compare, step by step.
    Did so.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    .


    Father JD...I did not see your intrepretation, merely a criticism of mine. What do you believe step by step, line by line, it means?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Father JD...I did not see your intrepretation, merely a criticism of mine. What do you believe step by step, line by line, it means?

    I told you what they meant in addition to telling you just how you were WRONG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    I told you what they meant in addition to telling you just how you were WRONG.
    No, I would like to see the coherency in your thought from one line to another--your discussion did not do that. Maybe you can humor me and just do an intrepretation line by line yourself, so I can see your thought process line by line and how one thought moves to the next.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    No, I would like to see the coherency in your thought from one line to another--your discussion did not do that. Maybe you can humor me and just do an intrepretation line by line yourself, so I can see your thought process line by line and how one thought moves to the next.
    I've just looked through my responses. It's all there: what the text is saying and a critique of your Mormon understanding of it.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    I've just looked through my responses. It's all there: what the text is saying and a critique of your Mormon understanding of it.
    I didn't see it. I went through the response I made and your response to my response, and I didn't see it. If it is there, it should be easy to copy and and paste only your interpretation of the text line by line.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charity View Post


    Nice reply
    Thanks Charity!

  19. #44
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    Well, read it again. I don't have time to spoon-feed you, sorry.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle View Post

    Does obedience (or disobedience) to God's commandments carry any eternal consequences for the Christian?


    Or to put it differently, is obedience to God's commandments at all necessary for salvation?
    You have asked two very different questions , although it also appears you do not understand this fact.

    The Christian does 'works' because we are saved.
    The works come with the salvation we have as a natural part of leading the Life of Christ in our hearts.
    The works that we do are recorded, and in the future Kingdom we receive rewards that we have stored up in heaven.

    This does not mean that we face a judgement of going to hell...

    So this means that doing works, or screwing up and not doing a work is not going to send a saved Christian to hell....thats just silly.

    But what we teach is that as you draw closer and closer to Christ you are transformed into the reflection of his life in your heart.

    This is why we are to have a very humble heart when thinking of our own works, for the works are not ours but are our Lord simply done though us.
    This is why we work out of our salvation with fear and trembling, for we dare not take pride in our works....

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle View Post
    After asking whether Baptism was a commandment, the answer from the LDS critics was "yes". But then comments drifted into the idea that there were no eternal consequences for not obeying this commandment.

    Later I asked whether repentance was a commandment. I am waiting for a response from the non-LDS to this question. (LDS believe it is a commandment btw.)

    So here is my final question.

    Does obedience (or disobedience) to God's commandments carry any eternal consequences for the Christian? Or to put it differently, is obedience to God's commandments at all necessary for salvation?

    My guess is that most LDS critics will say 'NO', and use scriptures like Romans 8:28-29 to show it.
    there was a guy who came to Jesus and asked about how to gain life?

    jesus pointed to the commandments.

    Then the guy answered that he had always kept the commandments....Then Jesus offered him a chance to drop everything and "follow me"
    This is the same request that came to the Disciples...

    yet this guy could not do it...and walked away dejected.
    So a lifetime spent keeping the commandments, turned out to be a moot point.

    But yet we cant blame the commandments.....but we have to always keep in mind that the goal of the christian is to come to Christ.....and that the commandments have but one use in our lives...to bring us to Christ.

    if the commandments dont do that?...then keeping them is a moot point.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ View Post
    What are the things a person must do to be saved in the LDS religion.

    Just off the top of my head:

    • Be baptized Mormon by another Mormon with authority to do so
    • Receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by another Mormon with authority to do so.
    • ***he 10% of one's gross income
    • Receive the LDS endowment (an initiatory rite performed in LDS temples
    • Be married to another Mormon in an LDS temple
    • Participate in "callings" (Relief Society, ward cl***es, singles wards, etc.)
    • Support the leadership of the LDS church
    • Make covenants and keep them
    • Repent
    • Have faith
    • Gain and maintain a testimony that the LDS church is true and the Book of Mormon is from God


    What else must a person do to be saved?
    Have you ever answered a question directly? Did you feel you needed to move to SLC to preach to Mormons? If so Russell, where did you receive that commandment and calling?

  23. #48
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    i just believe...and let god do the rest

  24. #49
    The Pheonix
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    i just believe...and let god do the rest
    What of the Sermon on the Mount, all geared toward commandments and the obedience of commandments to receive the fullness of God 's blessings and entrance into the kingdom of heaven...believe in Christ, but believe Christ.

  25. #50
    alanmolstad
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    not by works am I saved...not though my effort do I remain saved....

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