Lusting after your wife

[tealblue]

The early reformers were against birth control. The reformers had alot of beliefs that today are considered unbiblical. Christianity is becoming more and more resticted to what is specificly defined in black and white. Most christians believe abortion is immoral. What about artificially preventing an egg or sperm from completing its God driven purpose. Some christians have even suggested masterbation is ok.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally Posted by tealblue

The early reformers were against birth control. The reformers had alot of beliefs that today are considered unbiblical. Christianity is becoming more and more resticted to what is specificly defined in black and white. Most christians believe abortion is immoral. What about artificially preventing an egg or sperm from completing its God driven purpose. Some christians have even suggested masterbation is ok.

Where have you read that the early reformers were against birth control? Who were these early reformers? I agree that Christianity is prone to have an absolute view rather than a relative view, such as immorality of abortion or artificial insemination.

TruthSeeker

[tealblue]

Originally Posted by TruthSeeker

Where have you read that the early reformers were against birth control? Who were these early reformers? I agree that Christianity is prone to have an absolute view rather than a relative view, such as immorality of abortion or artificial insemination.

TruthSeeker

Up until 1930 all protestant denominations were against birth contol until the anclican church caved in to social pressures and opened the floodgates.

Martin Luther said, "[T]he exceedingly foul deed of Onan, the basest of wretches . . . is a most disgraceful sin. It is far more atrocious than incest and adultery. We call it unchas***y, yes, a sodomitic sin. For Onan goes in to her; that is, he lies with her and copulates, and when it comes to the point of insemination, spills the semen, lest the woman conceive. Surely at such a time the order of nature established by God in procreation should be followed. Accordingly, it was a most disgraceful crime. . . . Consequently, he deserved to be killed by God. He committed an evil deed. Therefore, God punished him."

John Calvin said, "The voluntary spilling of semen outside of intercourse between man and woman is a monstrous thing. Deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that semen may fall on the ground is doubly monstrous. For this is to extinguish the hope of the race and to kill before he is born the hoped-for offspring."

John Wesley warned, "Those sins that dishonor the body are very displeasing to God, and the evidence of vile affections. Observe, the thing which he [Onan] did displeased the Lord—and it is to be feared; thousands, especially of single persons, by this very thing, still displease the Lord, and destroy their own souls." (These p***ages are quoted in Charles D. Provan, The Bible and Birth Control, which contains many quotes by historic Protestant figures who recognize contraception’s evils

[Bob Carabbio]

OF course the "sin of Onan" really had nothing to do directly with anything being wrong necessarily with contraception, but was directly related to Onan's refusal to honor the law regarding the wife of his brother.

Agreed that the Catholic Church has always attempted to tie it to their distorted view of sex among Humans, but that's never been a TRUE teaching - only a denominational one.

[tealblue]

Originally Posted by Bob Carabbio

OF course the "sin of Onan" really had nothing to do directly with anything being wrong necessarily with contraception, but was directly related to Onan's refusal to honor the law regarding the wife of his brother.

Agreed that the Catholic Church has always attempted to tie it to their distorted view of sex among Humans, but that's never been a TRUE teaching - only a denominational one.

The Catholic church doesn't take scripture then try and make doctrine out of it like evangelicals do. Comes from Tradition of the apostles handed down thru the early church. There are plenty of early writings that are explicite against artificial birth control. I don't think you could make a case in scripture for every moral situation.

[exegete.writ]

Originally Posted by tealblue

The Catholic church doesn't take scripture then try and make doctrine out of it like evangelicals do. Comes from Tradition of the apostles handed down thru the early church. There are plenty of early writings that are explicite against artificial birth control. I don't think you could make a case in scripture for every moral situation.

What do you mean by that statement?

[tealblue]

Originally Posted by exegete.writ

What do you mean by that statement?

What I mean is Christianity was never based on the bible. The church was in place 100 years before the last ink was written. Then it wasn't until 400 until a cannon was even agreed upon. Yes the bible is inspired but who is doing the interpretation. It all comes down to anyone who says the bible is their authority is actually their own authority.

[Bob Carabbio]

"I don't think you could make a case in scripture for every moral situation."

I'd say that there are sufficient guidelines in the Word to get real "ballparkey" about just about everything, and the "Tradition" of the Romanist organization has yielded much ANTI-biblical belief as it has developed and grown over the years - so it's hardly a "Standard" by which anything can be evaluated safely.

[tealblue]

Well when you say ballparky that leads to private interpretation which leads to you own moral standard. People choose churches that fit thier own theology or if that doesn't work they creat their own. Making themselves their own master.

[johnd]

I not being a big fan of the traditions of men (Catholic, Protestant, or otherwise) say that these quagmires always develop as the result of not being from God.

The tradition of man defined lust and then back imposed it upon the biblical meaning of the word. I have to state the obvious... the word of God takes precedent over the words of men... otherwise its all for naught.

There is nothing in the Bible about lust between a husband and a wife being wrong. The marriage bed is undefiled (Hebrews 13:4).

Ornan's sin was in his willingness to have sex with his brother's widow and not fulfill raising up and heir to his dead brother... which didn't refrain him from the intercourse.

Honestly... I never understood the Catholic mind set... how folks made to feel so guilty about sexual relations could be expected to have big families... and the imposed celibacy on the priesthood and the monasteries and convents...

[tealblue]

Originally Posted by johnd

I not being a big fan of the traditions of men (Catholic, Protestant, or otherwise) say that these quagmires always develop as the result of not being from God.

The tradition of man defined lust and then back imposed it upon the biblical meaning of the word. I have to state the obvious... the word of God takes precedent over the words of men... otherwise its all for naught.

There is nothing in the Bible about lust between a husband and a wife being wrong. The marriage bed is undefiled (Hebrews 13:4).

Ornan's sin was in his willingness to have sex with his brother's widow and not fulfill raising up and heir to his dead brother... which didn't refrain him from the intercourse.

Honestly... I never understood the Catholic mind set... how folks made to feel so guilty about sexual relations could be expected to have big families... and the imposed celibacy on the priesthood and the monasteries and convents...

1 Thes 4:3-7 This is the will of God, your holiness: that you refrain from immorality,
4
that each of you know how to acquire a wife for himself in holiness and honor,
5
not in LUSTFUL p***ion as do the Gentiles who do not know God;

This verse talks about HOW to aquire a wife NOT in lustful p***ion.

As far as celabacy Paul goes himself recomended it.

[Jean Chauvin]

Hi Tealblue,

I'm sorry you became a Catholic. I'm ***uming you mean Roman Catholic.

All those consistent in Roman Catholicism are bound for purgatory, forever.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

[tealblue]

The term Roman Catholic came from the 17th century to seperate Catholics who are and are not in communion with the pope. The word Catholic first appeard in the early second century. The church has always been Catholic.