Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
From the text it seems clear that the church in heaven is very active in both witnessing the events going on here, as well as talking with the Lord and asking him to take steps.

They seem fully aware of life on earth, and what God was about to do and seem to be intervening or asking the Lord to move forward with the plans that they seem to know He has for the ones on the earth. .

so it's kinda like the catholic church's belief that dead christians are up in heaven doing stuff to intercede for living people, trying to convince God to do this or that for them?

my other question is: if God doesn't want any living apostles down here anymore to run things, does that explain the chaos and anarchy that exist in christendom? if God didn't give apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, etc. to the church for the purpose of continuously helping to unify our faith, for the work of the ministry, and for the edification of the saints until they have a perfect knowledge of the Son of God approaching the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ,

then what hope do we have of someday being no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men?

what successes in the past 1800 years on the part of those dead apostles can we point to, to show that they've been up there doing to stuff to move christianity along on its way to that idealistic goal that Paul told the Ephesian saints about ?