What's the moral difference?

[God-free]

Originally Posted by Christodoulos

I believe in a God who redeems people not worthy of redeeming.

Why do you believe that? And who are the people you're referring to?

It's not a LOW opinion of people ,it's the way it is.

Those 5 best friends you spoke of would, more likely than not, manage to stretch those 4 bags of groceries in such a way as to make sure no one went without during their week of captivity. It probably wouldn't be that hard to do. But, the reason I said you have a low opinion of people is because the challenge was a pretty mild one. You gave me the impression that you would expect them to be at each other's throats.

"The way it is" is that people aren't perfect and never have been. That doesn't mean we're all terrible people. This idea from religion, that people are desperately wicked and every part of them (mind, will, emotions and flesh) are corrupted, is one of the things I despise about it. It's simply not true. I'd go so far as to say that to teach these things amounts to mental and emotional abuse. It's intended to crush a person's self-esteem so that they'll latch on to "salvation" being offered. It's akin to a doctor cutting you with his scalpel just so he can sell you a band aid -- a very expensive band aid it is, too.

[Christodoulos]

Originally Posted by God-free

Why do you believe that? And who are the people you're referring to?

Those 5 best friends you spoke of would, more likely than not, manage to stretch those 4 bags of groceries in such a way as to make sure no one went without during their week of captivity. It probably wouldn't be that hard to do. But, the reason I said you have a low opinion of people is because the challenge was a pretty mild one. You gave me the impression that you would expect them to be at each other's throats.

"The way it is" is that people aren't perfect and never have been. That doesn't mean we're all terrible people. This idea from religion, that people are desperately wicked and every part of them (mind, will, emotions and flesh) are corrupted, is one of the things I despise about it. It's simply not true. I'd go so far as to say that to teach these things amounts to mental and emotional abuse. It's intended to crush a person's self-esteem so that they'll latch on to "salvation" being offered. It's akin to a doctor cutting you with his scalpel just so he can sell you a band aid -- a very expensive band aid it is, too.

I said to check on how the 5 best friends were doing after 4-5 days .. there was no set time mentioned.

I know that you are probably a public school teacher or social welfare worker ;it doesn't really matter.

I don't know how you can be blind to the rest of the world.

If you want a glimpse of the barbarism which exists in today's world ,it's still there ,it's still part of humanity ;and if this is how it is today ,you don't really need a vivid imagination to see what mankind experienced in past ages.

As Christianity retreats ,and it is retreating, all the progress humanity has made to date will recede along with it.

Look at the middle east.. Look at Africa.Look at Asia.

[God-free]

Originally Posted by Christodoulos

I said to check on how the 5 best friends were doing after 4-5 days .. there was no set time mentioned.

Yes, but after only a week, what would you expect to find? Like I said, you gave the impression that you expected that they’d be at each other’s throats (or at least you would expect to find one of the friends dead or dying from lack of food and water). I think people are better than that. Although, I must admit, there are times when I think the world would be a much better place without us in it.

I know that you are probably a public school teacher or social welfare worker ;it doesn't really matter.

I’m neither, but it’s nice to be mistaken for those things. Thank You!

I don't know how you can be blind to the rest of the world.

Oh, I’m not blind to what’s happening in the world. I’m just not attributing it to what religion calls “the fall of man.” And, I’m certainly not attributing it to the entirety of the human race. To do that is tantamount to a slap in the face to all of the truly good people, religious and non-religious, who are working to make the world a better place. That being said, one would have to be blind not to see that a huge chunk of the world's troubles are due to religious differences.

If you want a glimpse of the barbarism which exists in today's world ,it's still there ,it's still part of humanity ;and if this is how it is today ,you don't really need a vivid imagination to see what mankind experienced in past ages.

I’m aware of what humanity has experienced in past ages. That includes an awareness of the role religion has played in so much of it (and still does). Thank goodness for the enlightenment/secularism and the First Amendment of our Cons***ution. Without that, myself and many, many more would probably have been burnt at the stake by now, by the Christians in this country, for the “crime” of nonbelief (basically, thought crime).

As Christianity retreats ,and it is retreating, all the progress humanity has made to date will recede along with it.

If Christianity is retreating, it’s likely because people are finally beginning to see through it. I feel safe in saying that the progress we’ve made over the last couple of centuries has occurred despite Christianiy/religion, rather than because of it.

Look at the middle east.. Look at Africa.Look at Asia.

Look at the United States! Just this morning I came across this.
It spells out some of the reasons why the US is experiencing so many problems lately (I‘m looking at you, GOP). It talks about:

- the scarcity of ***s and why

- wealth inequality and why

- who is really making our laws

- the U.S. prison population compared to other countries

and more.
All this is happening in a country where, if you include Catholics, approximately 75% of the population self-identifies as Christian. It’s an eye-opener and I recommend that you read it (it won‘t take long).