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  1. #1
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    .
    Evolution is true enough to trust in.
    Evolution and genesis agree
    Alan you really believe that evolution and Genesis agree? Really? Please explain why you believe this.

  2. #2
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Alan you really believe that evolution and Genesis agree? Really? Please explain why you believe this.
    Its easy to see....

    Trace back the story of all life as taught to us by Evolution and guess what you come to as the starting point?......

    The answer is you get to the same starting point for all life as we find in the Bible...

    Consider :
    http://bible.cc/genesis/1-24.htm
    And God said, Let the earth bring forth .......

    The starting point for all life in both the teachings of Evolution and in the story of Genesis is that all life is from the earth....

  3. #3
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post

    The starting point for all life in both the teachings of Evolution and in the story of Genesis is that all life is from the earth....
    Do you believe that God created the first cell then directed evolution to the first man?

  4. #4
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Do you believe ....
    I believe what the Bible says....and I try not to add to anything, but rather I find it best to just stick to the Text as close as i can and see how that goes....
    So lets check what the text says!


    Does the Bible say that God created the first cell?
    .....not that I can find.


    The word "cell" is not really all that clear in my version of the Bible, does anyone find it listed in theirs?



    So what does the Bible say about the origin of man?


    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

    the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken

    So the teaching of Genesis is that man's origin is from the earth itself....that we are a part of the earth that has come to life.



    Now is this answer any different than where animals come from?

    And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature


    Ah, so now we see that all the animals share the same place of origin with man.....
    Our origin in common is the "earth"

    The earth was commanded to bring forth life...both human and animal.

    This also is the same answer we receive from the teachers of evolution ...

  5. #5
    alanmolstad
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    The issue of Evolution is one of the few places where i totally seem to disagree with the current Bible Answer Man, Hank.

    Hank has made it very clear to me over the last few months I have looked into his views that he simply rejects evolution.

    I find most of the proof that Hank lists as proof against evolution as being very silly.

    I also remember that Walter Martin always allowed for the vast amounts of time (Billions of years) whenever he answered a question about Genesis Days.

    So, then.....what do I believe about the Genesis /Evolution question?

    I believe that Evolution has enough real support in science to be considered 100% true.
    I also believe that if you read the story of Genesis you will not actually find any anti-evolution arguments.

    I believe that a close reading of the Genesis text will show you that there is room within the way the Genesis story is written for Evolution to be true..

    I believe that the earth is Billions and billions of years old, and that this fits within the Genesis story.

  6. #6
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    This also is the same answer we receive from the teachers of evolution ...
    Alan, you believe God created the first cell then guided evolution until we got the first man?

  7. #7
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Alan, you believe God created the first cell then guided evolution until we got the first man?
    I believe what the Bible says....and I try not to add to anything, but rather I find it best to just stick to the Text as close as i can and see how that goes....
    So lets check what the text says!


    Does the Bible say that God created the first cell?.....not that I can find.


    The word "cell" is not really all that clear in my version of the Bible, does anyone find it listed in theirs?



    So what does the Bible say about the origin of man?

    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

    the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken

    So the teaching of Genesis is that man's origin is from the earth itself....that we are a part of the earth that has come to life.



    Now is this answer any different than where animals come from?

    And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature


    Ah, so now we see that all the animals share the same place of origin with man.....
    Our origin in common is the "earth"

    The earth was commanded to bring forth life...both human and animal.

    This also is the same answer we receive from the teachers of evolution ...

    (Oh Im sorry, I thought we were playing a game where we both copy/paste our old posts over and over)

  8. #8
    alanmolstad
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    I believe the rapture is a joke...an invented idea by tent teachers.

    I do not believe for a moment that the christian church will turn tail and run from the earth that God has made....

    I do not believe for a moment that the church will be unable to stand up to the antiChrist....

    I believe that the church will break down the gates of hell...thats the point of the church.

    we are the army on the march,,,
    not the army running from the field.

  9. #9
    alanmolstad
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    I believe that a lot of christians show bad manners on-line.
    They seem to have no clue how to have a nice conversation with people who disagree with them.

    I see real "hate speech' going on...

    I see people who in person are likely the most nice and calm people in the world, suddenly turn out to be posting comments that are filled with anger and bile.

    I see far too many Christians unable to tell a joke...unable to laugh at a joke ....unable to take a joke.

    I think I know what the problem is too.
    I think it is caused by the way the internet allows people to hide ....

    The use of names like "ZxCop62" gives a type of freedom to get away with things that would not be allowed had everyone known your real name.
    Some people use this ability to hide who they really are as a means to let loose with the darker angels of their souls.

    I just wish my brothers and sisters would catch on to the fact that at the end of time, when we stand before the judge, and the books of our lives will open, and we see and hear about all the things each of us did while we walked the earth, that down there at the end of the judges bench there will also be an I-Pad sitting....with all the words we ever posted .....and it to will be gone over by our Lord and discussed.

  10. #10
    alanmolstad
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    The Free Will issue....



    One of the central ideas of the Christian faith is the idea that we have Free Will, and that while we do have this gift, , the free Will we have operates well within the sovereignty of God over creation.


    The Bible gives us a very clear example of how our freedom/ability/power to carry out our own wills is always yet under the sovereignty of God.

    The example I speak of is found at JOHN 19:10
    This verse and the one after it shows us clearly how both Free Will and God's sovereignty work in our lives.

    ""Do you refuse to speak to me?" Pilate said. "Don't you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?"
    This is human free will at work.
    Pilate had the total free will to do what he wanted with Jesus.
    He could let him go
    He could send him to his death.
    It was only Pilate's call to make.

    No one was there that had any real power at all to force what decision was to happen.
    Pilate could ***ign values to things to understand that he and he alone could value this or that more highly that other things as he thought about what he was about to do.

    This is how we all see our human free will.

    This is the very heart of the call the Christian puts out for people to "repent" and draw closer to God though Christ.
    Unless we had this type of ability to make our own decisions, there would be no need, no point in asking people to repent.

    So that is how Free Will is understood and taught in the Bible...

    Next we will read the words of Christ as he shows us how God's Sovereignty works with Free Will.

    John 19:11
    "Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.

    Here we see how Human Free Will does not confront the Sovereignty of God at all.
    The Free Will of Pilate is within the rule and control of God at all times....yet is never squashing the human free will at any time.

    The fact that Jesus never once contradicts Pilate shows us that Jesus knew Pilate had the free will to do whatever he wanted.
    But Jesus does point out the fact that God's Sovereignty is beyond human free will to counteract.
    that human free will is a GIFT from God!

    In the last part of the verse Jesus reminds us that we still will suffer for our sins, no matter the Sovereignty of God over creation.
    That we and we alone are responsible for our actions, and they when we sin we face a Judgement for our sins.

    And to sum it up?
    All that I believe of Free Will is in full agreement with Dr Walter Martin as shown here - http://www.besked.se/audio/WM_EC31_1.mp3
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 07-17-2011 at 07:30 AM.

  11. #11
    alanmolstad
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    My Philosophy:
    My views of the Mormon faith?

    Joseph Smith made the whole thing up...




    This means?...

    This means there was no visit by any angels to him.
    No burred golden plates.
    No translations into the book of Mormon.
    The book of Mormon was just something made up.
    None of the new stories about people going to America from the holy lands are true.
    The god of the Mormons is fake, and invented.
    That all the death and suffering of Mormons to follow Smith's teachings have been pointless.
    That all the door-to-door work of Mormons is of no value at all to them, and it serves only to spread a false religion.

  12. #12
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    My Philosophy:
    My views of the Mormon faith?

    Joseph Smith made the whole thing up...




    This means?...

    This means there was no visit by any angels to him.
    No burred golden plates.
    No translations into the book of Mormon.
    The book of Mormon was just something made up.
    None of the new stories about people going to America from the holy lands are true.
    The god of the Mormons is fake, and invented.
    That all the death and suffering of Mormons to follow Smith's teachings have been pointless.
    That all the door-to-door work of Mormons is of no value at all to them, and it serves only to spread a false religion.

    I wrote the above back on 07-17-2011 and so I was looking at my list to see if any of my views on Mormonism have changed?
    The list has many statements that over the years I have seen Mormons attempt to challenge-




    "This means there was no visit by any angels to him." ------------This view of mine has just become more and more 100% certain to me personally.
    I have been able to learn more and more details of the 'story" of Joe Smith's claims of a visitation, and for the life of me I find it totally crazy that people took him seriously.
    To my mind he was clearly a thief and flim-flam man that was clearly out to con other men out of their coin and later out of their wives and daughters.

    "No burred golden plates."----------I have seen not even a real attempt by any Mormon to defend the idea that there really were any plates.
    I have learned of the ever-changing account told about the plates, and something tells me that a lot of Mormons are in their church based on other reasons and dont really put any stock in any of the story of finding anything by Smith.


    "No translations into the book of Mormon."-------------the story of the magic 'hat' is a laugh, and I think that really deep down most people do too...
    And that means that the whole of the Book Of Mormon is juts something the guy made up....or lifted from other sources.



    "The god of the Mormons is fake, and invented."--------because I think its clear that Joe Smith was a lier and made up the story of the Golden Plates and thevisits by Angels, I also hold that the "god' of mormonism is a false god.
    This means that the religion of joe Smith is invented and is aimed at leading people away from the true God of the Bible...

    That being the case, I believe that all Mormons who have put their trust in the false god taught by Smith are lost and still in their sins.

    This means that all Mormons die and go to hell, to burn forever and ever in never-ending suffering .

  13. #13
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I wrote the above back on 07-17-2011 and so I was looking at my list to see if any of my views on Mormonism have changed?
    The list has many statements that over the years I have seen Mormons attempt to challenge-




    "This means there was no visit by any angels to him." ------------This view of mine has just become more and more 100% certain to me personally.
    I have been able to learn more and more details of the 'story" of Joe Smith's claims of a visitation, and for the life of me I find it totally crazy that people took him seriously.
    To my mind he was clearly a thief and flim-flam man that was clearly out to con other men out of their coin and later out of their wives and daughters.

    "No burred golden plates."----------I have seen not even a real attempt by any Mormon to defend the idea that there really were any plates.
    I have learned of the ever-changing account told about the plates, and something tells me that a lot of Mormons are in their church based on other reasons and dont really put any stock in any of the story of finding anything by Smith.


    "No translations into the book of Mormon."-------------the story of the magic 'hat' is a laugh, and I think that really deep down most people do too...
    And that means that the whole of the Book Of Mormon is juts something the guy made up....or lifted from other sources.



    "The god of the Mormons is fake, and invented."--------because I think its clear that Joe Smith was a lier and made up the story of the Golden Plates and thevisits by Angels, I also hold that the "god' of mormonism is a false god.
    This means that the religion of joe Smith is invented and is aimed at leading people away from the true God of the Bible...

    That being the case, I believe that all Mormons who have put their trust in the false god taught by Smith are lost and still in their sins.

    This means that all Mormons die and go to hell, to burn forever and ever in never-ending suffering .
    Sounds all true to me. At the risk of an over-simplifying remark, , what chance is there of God’s people stopping it?

  14. #14
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    Sounds all true to me. At the risk of an over-simplifying remark, , what chance is there of God’s people stopping it?
    As part of my church's outreach to the world of the CULTS I was called on many times to come to the house of members of my church to help them deal with a situation.
    most of the time it was a family member that had turned to a CULT>
    Many times it was all a shock to the parents....many times it was all about a wedding in the near future where suddenly the parents of a boy or girl in our church were made aware that the wedding would take place it what was clearly not a Christian-type faith.

    I worked mostly with the JWs, but from time to time I was called on to help some people that had some issue with the Mormons.
    Due to a huge Mormon Temple that is local it was not uncommon for people to have run-ins with Mormons and would need advice on how to handle some very tricky situations.

    One night I traveled to a home of some parents that had no idea they their daughter was about to marry a member of the Mormon church until two days before.
    I can understand that..
    I mean who really asks about that stuff anymore?


    So I showed a video about the history and teachings of the Mormon church, and about the history Joe Smith had with his treasure seeking etc...
    Then I had a few hand-outs to give the parents...and showed them a few books by Walter martin that I always carried with me and kept by the front door.

    The dad i remember listened to what i had to say, but then I could tell it was just not what he was looking for out of me.

    He asked me..."Is this all there is?...Thats all we can do to stop this wedding?, Whats it going to matter if we read some books and go talk to our minister?"


    Clearly the dad wanted me to have some type of "RULE"...that would stop the wedding cold.
    He wanted to earn that this type of marriage would be against some type of Law, and we could call someone and they would stop the wedding.

    But that simply is not the case.

    All I could do is bring over information, and then pray with the parents.




    Information shared....education on the facts....and prayer is all I knew how to do to help the parents.
    It's not magic.
    It's not guaranteed to work every time.
    But I dont know what else a person can do for members who face this type of situation.

    education and prayer......

  15. #15
    alanmolstad
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    and.....once again on the one night I have totally all this free time and nothing else to do, no one on this forum is posting any new comments?...



    Typical

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