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Originally Posted by Father_JD
Uh, not according to the Bible's MEANING of the term, BJ. You expose this in the very next sentence:
No, I understand BIBLICALLY that we're BORN INTO SIN. We were physically born DEAD ON ARRIVAL SPIRITUALLY. Again, your premise is that people are somehow born "neutral" and it's only BY some willful sinning that one THEN spiritually "dies".
Not according to the Bible:We are neutral when we are born or spiritually alive because Christ atoned for the sins of Adam. Therefore, infants who die are not dead spiritually.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
It's NOT referring to the sex act as "sinful" but that we are BORN INTO A SINFUL CONDITION.
Now instead of offering yet more Mormon belief, ADDRESS this verse.
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The Mormon understanding of "spiritual death" is extremely DEFICIENT, Julie.
The atonement's efficacy of overcoming spiritual death is FOR THE REDEEMED AND ONLY THE REDEEMED. NOT for mankind in general!! Infants are in God's hands one way or another. We can INFER from some texts that GRACE is applied to them should they die in infancy.The Mormon understanding of spiritual death takes into account the atonement which overcame Adam's sins. If you believe that all men are born spiritually dead, then you must believe that infants who die are dead to God forever.
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Justification to life is NOT talking about physical life/resurrection but is in reference to ETERNAL LIFE, the undoing of SPIRITUAL DEATH.
No the justification that is to ALL men is to physical death. God is a just God and therefore, would not have us perish because of the acts of Adam. Therefore, we all will be resurrected. Our spiritual death is our own doing through sin, not because of Adam.
That's your Mormon opinion, it just doesn't MEASURE up to what scripture teaches: Justification does NOT REFER TO PHYSICAL DEATH, but to be declared forensically INNOCENT in the spiritual sense.
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This has been explained to you several times now, to which you offer no reasoned re****al, but your Mormon-induced belief. Here's a commentary which might shed light on your erroneous understanding of the p***age:
Why on earth would I believe the commentary of a bunch of men?
Uh, how about because they KNOW the Bible a heck of a lot better than you?????
No, the Bible's way does NOT condemn infants to hell...this is your straw-man argument based upon your erroneous understanding of THE FALL. We ARE held accountable for the sins we commit...so who said anything about sins "never committed". As typical, you REFUSE to engage your OWN condition, but instead prefer to bring up either the hypothetical "pygmy in Africa" or the dead infant scenario as if this answers YOUR dilemma.I have explained myself well. I read the scriptures as they have been written...I read ALL to mean ALL and MANYto mean MANY. I don't read ALL to mean partial or not all. My way of reading Romans makes way more sense. Your way condemns infants to hell as they are born dead not because of their own sins,but because of Adams and Christ's atonement is of no effect to the sins of Adam. How can God be a just God if he holds us accountable for the sins we have never committed?
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Jamieson, Fausset & Brown Commentary on Romans 5:
Fourth, The "all men" of Rom 5:18 and the "many" of Rom 5:19 are the same party, though under a slightly different aspect.
It's BASED UPON OTHER SCRIPTURES and in comparison one with the other. It's Mormons who REFUSE to read the Bible in CONTEXT, but prefer instead to pull out individual verses OUT OF CONTEXT which you think support Mormon conditions.Why on earth did Paul use different words if he meant the same thing? Look at the way they spin this to get the meaning they want. It is quite clear without all the explanation.
I've answered this several times:You have yet to answer my question...do you believe all will be resurrected or not?
The Redeemed are RESURRECTED UNTO ETERNAL LIFE.
The ****ed are RESURRECTED UNTO ETERNAL DEATH.
Got it now?