The Thief

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
And all I have said is 100% consistent with what I say here.. There is NO LAW OT or NT in the Gospel..

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
I know, James. You are 100% wrong.

Galatians5:2--"Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ."

Originally Posted by James Banta

And where is the Law of Jesus part of the Gospel. Where are they even used in the same context?

Are you attempting to show that bearing one another's burdens is not part of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Do you ALWAYS bear your fellows burdens? ALWAYS? Do you ALWAYS love your fellow LDS all of them ALWAYS? I say No you don't always bear the burdens of one another,

James--using my personal position as a litmus test to determine if the scriptures are true or not in not my idea of good exegesis.

The scriptures state that bearing the burdens of others is the fulfillment of the law of Christ, period. Again--are you stating that that has nothing to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ?

so by the authority of James 2:10 I say that you are guilty of NOT bearing the burdens of anyone.. You can't escape this by pointing a finger at me.. You are also making an unrighteous judgment is telling me that I am somehow worst than you in that commandment. I do admit that I am guilty of breaking the WHOLE of God's law in breaking this and many other commandments. I claim no righteousness of my own.. In myself there is nothing good save it be of God. You on the other hand are busy building the filthy rags of your own self righteousness.. IHS jim

And just where do you find that obeying Christ is related to "filthy rags"?

Are you saying that those of the scriptures had a right to the tree of life due to filthy rags:

Revelation22:14--"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

The faith alone do no more than make a mockery of the Biblical text by their approach of stating there are no acts of obedience to Jesus Christ necessary for His grace unto life. It is in direct contradiction to the scriptures. One is either going to have to have a way of collating the scriptures one to another--or ***ume the Bible is a very unreliable source of truth. Pitting the scriptures against one another, and playing the cat in the litter box, does nothing to establish your theology, and much toward proving the Bible unworthy of belief.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

The faith alone do no more than make a mockery of the Biblical text by their approach of stating there are no acts of obedience to Jesus Christ necessary for His grace unto life.

The Bible teaches that we are saved when we place our faith in Christ and that our works do not contribute for salvation. It is a mockery for you to teach that your works help save you, and that complete obedience to the commandments is what is required when you fail by your own standards.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
The faith alone do no more than make a mockery of the Biblical text by their approach of stating there are no acts of obedience to Jesus Christ necessary for His grace unto life.

Originally Posted by Billyray

The Bible teaches that we are saved when we place our faith in Christ and that our works do not contribute for salvation.

Sure it does:

Philippians2:12--"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

It is a mockery for you to teach that your works help save you,

But of course--the only way to honor God is to teach there are no acts of obedience to Him necessary fro His grace unto life--right?

1 John2:3-4--"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

and that complete obedience to the commandments is what is required when you fail by your own standards.

The only way to fail is to lose the faith and throw away the truth. The LDS believe that the way to succeed is to rise one more time than we fall.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

1 John2:3-4--"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

can you point out where it says that works contribute for salvation?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

The only way to fail is to lose the faith and throw away the truth. The LDS believe that the way to succeed is to rise one more time than we fall.

Is the standard for exaltation complete obedience to the commandments? If so why will you be exalted since you admit that you don't keep the commandments.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
The only way to fail is to lose the faith and throw away the truth. The LDS believe that the way to succeed is to rise one more time than we fall.

Originally Posted by Billyray

Is the standard for exaltation complete obedience to the commandments?

Yes. We have been through this before.

If so why will you be exalted since you admit that you don't keep the commandments.

I suppose I am of the same thinking that Paul was--I press toward the mark of the high calling of God.

That High calling, for me-- is eternal life--the mark is perfection.

Billyray--I don't give up my religion because someone is trying to tell me I can't do it. I have faith in Christ--that somehow He will help me in the eternities to become perfected in Him. I know I can do it. I know it is possible, with God.

Throwing away the truth for some prompting satan whispers in my ear is not my idea of faith in Christ.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

I suppose I am of the same thinking that Paul was--I press toward the mark of the high calling of God.

But you don't meet your own requirements.

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Billyray

But you don't meet your own requirements.

Actually, he will meet the requirements of Christ who told us:

Matthew 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

If Christ commanded it as he does here, who are you to say it is not possible?

Marvin

[dberrie2000]

Billyray--If so why will you be exalted since you admit that you don't keep the commandments.

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post

I suppose I am of the same thinking that Paul was--I press toward the mark of the high calling of God.

Originally Posted by Billyray

But you don't meet your own requirements.

They are not my requirement--they are the words of Paul.

What is your evidence that I don't press forward toward the mark?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

They are not my requirement--they are the words of Paul.

Paul was saved and he was not perfectly obedient to the commandments.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

What is your evidence that I don't press forward toward the mark?

you have told me flat out that you don't obey the commandments and you don't plan on obeying them in this life. You don't meet your own requirements. Why do you think that I should have a standard that you yourself don't keep?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
What is your evidence that I don't press forward toward the mark?

Originally Posted by Billyray

you have told me flat out that you don't obey the commandments and you don't plan on obeying them in this life.

I have told you no such thing. I plan on obeying all the commandments in this life--I just believe that it will be in the life hereafter that I am perfected in that quest. That is why I press on toward the mark--I have not given up on it.

You don't meet your own requirements.

I don't have any requirements--but I do believe Christ does. And that is the mark I press toward.

Why do you think that I should have a standard that you yourself don't keep?

I don't think you should have a standard outside of Christ's. I think all of mankind should have that standard, which is this standard:

Matthew5:48--"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

I have told you no such thing. I plan on obeying all the commandments in this life--I just believe that it will be in the life hereafter that I am perfected in that quest. That is why I press on toward the mark--I have not given up on it.

Will you be perfectly obedient to the commandments in this life?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
you have told me flat out that you don't obey the commandments and you don't plan on obeying them in this life.

dberrie---I have told you no such thing. I plan on obeying all the commandments in this life--I just believe that it will be in the life hereafter that I am perfected in that quest. That is why I press on toward the mark--I have not given up on it.

Originally Posted by Billyray

Will you be perfectly obedient to the commandments in this life?

Your circling, Billyray. Please read my post carefully.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Your circling, Billyray. Please read my post carefully.

In this life you will not meet your own requirements.

What makes you think that can work on your sins in the next life?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Matthew5:48--"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

will you meet this commandment in this life?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Matthew5:48--"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Originally Posted by Billyray

will you meet this commandment in this life?

Is that your measure of whether this scripture is true or not?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Is that your measure of whether this scripture is true or not?

It is a measure of if you are right or not. Obviously if you make up a requirement and every single person falls short of your requirement then what you are telling me is wrong.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Matthew5:48--"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
will you meet this commandment in this life?

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Is that your measure of whether this scripture is true or not?

Originally Posted by Billyray

It is a measure of if you are right or not. Obviously if you make up a requirement and every single person falls short of your requirement then what you are telling me is wrong.

Billyray--the truth of the matter is--Matthew5:48 is not something that I made up. It's part of the Biblical NT--and out of the mouth of the Savior Himself.

So--do you believe that Christ made something up that every single person falls short of?

Do you believe what Christ stated is false, if that is the case?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Billyray--the truth of the matter is--Matthew5:48 is not something that I made up. It's part of the Biblical NT--and out of the mouth of the Savior Himself.

So--do you believe that Christ made something up that every single person falls short of?

Do you believe what Christ stated is false, if that is the case?

Do you or any person you know keep all the commandments?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Matthew5:48--"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
will you meet this commandment in this life?

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Is that your measure of whether this scripture is true or not?

Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
It is a measure of if you are right or not. Obviously if you make up a requirement and every single person falls short of your requirement then what you are telling me is wrong.

dberrie---Billyray--the truth of the matter is--Matthew5:48 is not something that I made up. It's part of the Biblical NT--and out of the mouth of the Savior Himself.

So--do you believe that Christ made something up that every single person falls short of?

Do you believe what Christ stated is false, if that is the case?

Originally Posted by Billyray

Do you or any person you know keep all the commandments?

If I did--would you believe the Savior's command?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

If I did--would you believe the Savior's command?

Do you or any person you know keep all the commandments?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Matthew5:48--"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Originally Posted by Billyray

Do you or any person you know keep all the commandments?

Again--if I did--would you believe that this command of the Savior found in Matthew5:48 was true?

If I don't--would you consider it to be false?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Again--if I did--would you believe that this command of the Savior found in Matthew5:48 was true?

If I don't--would you consider it to be false?

Will anyone go to heaven based on this standard of perfect obedience to the commandments?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Matthew5:48--"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
Do you or any person you know keep all the commandments?

dberrie--Again--if I did--would you believe that this command of the Savior found in Matthew5:48 was true?

If I don't--would you consider it to be false?

Originally Posted by Billyray

Will anyone go to heaven based on this standard of perfect obedience to the commandments?

I suppose as many as meet the requirements of the Savior:

Revelation2:26-28--"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28And I will give him the morning star."