God's first creation

[baptizedinChrist]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

In the beginning of what?

The beginning.

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

I guess if you think rocks are as important to God as people, then you would say God has no preeminent creation.

Ok. So, people. Anything else? Are you achieving your end by asking us these questions?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by baptizedinChrist

Notice the equivocation, Russ? Our Mormon friend tells us that those who are not married will inherit the celestial kingdom. Yet, no one said they won't. What's been said is that they will not inherit eternal life. Does our Mormon friend not realize that the two are not the same? Are we non-Mormons going to have to correct him regarding his own beliefs? Or, will he be prideful enough not to acquiesce to such a humiliating scenario and actually come out and be clear about the beliefs of the LDS Church as you have been?

All good LDS members know that only married Mormons will receive eternal life according to LDS laws, ordinances and principles.

*shrug*

[maklelan]

Originally Posted by Russ

Ah haz gon bak n' red it agin. U sed:


It seemz dat yer suggestin' dat the narrative ain't historikally akerate. U sed in part, "I'm unaware that states that the narrative itself is historically accurate."

Hep me git on da same pagee.

Thanks ya,

Vee Pee ah Mizzipi.

Shoedog, a fiend o' mine, iz Prezdint, but he's on da road rite now so I'll call him on da cell phone n' see if'n he wantz ta call ya. Gotta number?

But rite now I gotz to go eat sum dinner.

P.S. I had to lok up "conflating."

My wife is making me a perty afghan of conflatin' colours. Life is like a box of chocolates, ain't it?

No sincere response to my criticism, just latching on to my sarcasm in your attempt to evade.

[maklelan]

Originally Posted by Russ

Definitely, according to (let's get real serious here and "stuff," ahem hhrrmmpphh), only married Mormons receive eternal life, that life which is described by Mormons as continuing the family unit in the eternities.

You're not dealing with a rookie, Maklelan. lol

http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375

Evidently I am, since you seem to think that thread addresses what I referenced, and that Bruce R. McKonkie's non-approved book trumps Spencer Kimball. I understand that within the world of anti-Mormonism you're no doubt a pro, but in the real world you're still woefully unprepared to deal with the facts.

[maklelan]

Originally Posted by Russ

All good LDS members know that only married Mormons will receive eternal life according to LDS laws, ordinances and principles.

*shrug*

Ah, the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Not very common, but it still doesn't make up for ignoring what the prophet of the church has said about the question. You're a true rookie.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by baptizedinChrist

Genesis 1:1 :: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

In the beginning of what?

Originally Posted by baptizedinChrist

Does He have one?

I guess if you think rocks are as important to God as people, then you would say God has no preeminent creation.

[HickPreacher]

The Lord (Jehovah) made Heavens of the Heavens and the angels first-- they were a direct creation-- brought forth from Jehovah's command- they were not procreated-

Psalms 148:1-5:
1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights.
2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
6 He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not p***.

Psalms 33: 6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses.
8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Afterward these angels are called the Sons of God ( in an unfalled state).-- they were already created at the time of the physical creation of the Earth.

*** 38: 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

The Angels worship Jehovah as creator-- Jehovah created the heaven of the heavens--

Neh. 9 6 Thou, even thou, art LORD (Jehovah) alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by baptizedinChrist

The beginning.

You aren't really sure of what "The beginning" really means.

Originally Posted by baptizedinChrist

Ok. So, people. Anything else? Are you achieving your end by asking us these questions?

Great. We agree. People are more important than rocks.

Do you therefore agree that some creations are more valuable and important than others?

[HickPreacher]

There are several beginnings--------------


When we look at the first paragraph in Genesis--

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

This was after the angels were created.

God created the heavens of the heavens-- then the angels-- then the earth.

The angels needed a place to dwell-- so it was made before the angels.

And it was the Lord (Jehovah) who created the heaven of the heavens.

Angels and Jehovah are not of the same generation at all. Jehovah could not have been a birthed son of a Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother if no heaven to be born in to existed.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by HickPreacher

There are several beginnings--------------

I tend to agree with this idea of several beginnings. When we use the word "beginning" it does not necessarily mean the one and only beginning.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

I am curious as to what Evangelicals believe was God's first creation, ?.

....

and the answer is - "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth"

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by Russ

God's first act, after being a mere mortal but thereafter becoming deity by obedience to LDS laws, ordinances and principles, was to take a wife (or wives D&C 132). His first "creation" (or "procreation"), says LDSism, was Jesus Christ where it's said that God (Elohim) and Mother God "begat" Jesus. Satan was "procreated" sometime after.

...trying to keep it real and on topic with LDS discussion.

Good to see you have not changed...nice rude diversion. I truly have not missed you or CARM.

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by HickPreacher

There are several beginnings--------------


When we look at the first paragraph in Genesis--




This was after the angels were created.

God created the heavens of the heavens-- then the angels-- then the earth.

The angels needed a place to dwell-- so it was made before the angels.

And it was the Lord (Jehovah) who created the heaven of the heavens.

Angels and Jehovah are not of the same generation at all. Jehovah could not have been a birthed son of a Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother if no heaven to be born in to existed.

JEHOVAH bin Elohiem? So you do not believe he is the Son of God?

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

JEHOVAH bin Elohiem? So you do not believe he is the Son of God?

No, it is you and your lds pals who do not believe that Jesus is God the Son.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

No, it is you and your lds pals who do not believe that Jesus is God the Son.

Jesus is the Son of God because of the flesh. This doesn't change the fact that Jesus is God, and that He has always been God. That is the point that the LDS can't accept.. As members of the Church you and I know that Jesus is many things. He is God, He is the Son of God, and he is the Son of man.. IHS jim

[TrueBlue?]

Originally Posted by HickPreacher

The Lord (Jehovah) made Heavens of the Heavens and the angels first-- they were a direct creation-- brought forth from Jehovah's command- they were not procreated-





Afterward these angels are called the Sons of God ( in an unfalled state).-- they were already created at the time of the physical creation of the Earth.



The Angels worship Jehovah as creator-- Jehovah created the heaven of the heavens--

Actually, Wisdom was the first of His works.

NIV
Proverbs 8:
"22"The Lord brought me forth as the first
of his works, before his deeds of old;
23I was appointed from eternity, from the
beginning, before the world began.
24When there were no oceans, I was
given birth, when there were no springs
abounding with water;
25before the mountains were settled in
place, before the hills, I was given birth,
26before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.
27I was there when he set the heavens
in place, when he marked out the
horizon on the face of the deep,
28when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the
deep,

The Question is, who was Wisdom

NIV
1st Corinthians
22Jews demand miraculous signs and
Greeks look for wisdom,
23but we preach Christ crucified: a
stumbling block to Jews and foolishness
to Gentiles,
24but to those whom God has called,
both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power
of God and the wisdom of God....

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by TrueBlue?

Actually, Wisdom was the first of His works.


The Question is, who was Wisdom

NIV
1st Corinthians
22Jews demand miraculous signs and
Greeks look for wisdom,
23but we preach Christ crucified: a
stumbling block to Jews and foolishness
to Gentiles,
24but to those whom God has called,
both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power
of God and the wisdom of God....

And all this time I thought it was me.

I am the First and the Last. Lets see, both Jesus and God were called the First and the Last, and I was somewhere in the middle.

[alanmolstad]

Wisdom at Proverbs 8 is female...

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by Russ

God's first act, after being a mere mortal but thereafter becoming deity by obedience to LDS laws, ordinances and principles, was to take a wife (or wives D&C 132). His first "creation" (or "procreation"), says LDSism, was Jesus Christ where it's said that God (Elohim) and Mother God "begat" Jesus. Satan was "procreated" sometime after.

...trying to keep it real and on topic with LDS discussion.

I can see your first act is to deflect from answering. So at least there are still some constants in the Universe. I think maybe his first act in the reformation was to call John Calvin to lead the souls of so many to hell, and you to Salt Lake...do you just har*** the Mormons there or Catholics as well. You know in the early Christian Church Russ, you could just kill us. Thoses must have been the days!

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

No, it is you and your lds pals who do not believe that Jesus is God the Son.

That is without a doubt an overt lie about what we believe. Heartbreaking.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Wisdom at Proverbs 8 is female...

I just thought it needed to be pointed out....

I know a lot of Bible students read the Proverbs 8 stuff out of context and come away thinking it might have been talking about Christ.....


It was not...

Proverbs 8 is not talking about Jesus.....

[MacG]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

That is without a doubt an overt lie about what we believe. Heartbreaking.

The CJCLDS really believes Jesus is God the Son second person of the Trinity? The Trinty where the Holy Spirit is a person? Because that is what he meant.

Perhaps you misread the comment?

[TrueBlue?]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I just thought it needed to be pointed out....

I know a lot of Bible students read the Proverbs 8 stuff out of context and come away thinking it might have been talking about Christ.....


It was not...

Proverbs 8 is not talking about Jesus.....

So who was the one who discovered that every christian apologist and scholar for the first several centuries of Christian history were wrong. Even in the debates at Nicaea no one questioned whether or not Christ was the wisdom being spoken of in Prov. 8:22 but whether He was created or begotten.

[James Banta]

And by the work of the Holy Spirit they came up with the right answer.. He is begotten not created..

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father. (Nicene Creed)


Would you like to see wording is LDS scripture that was changed by Smith years after it was said that the translation was made by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man? The Nicene Creed made no such claim. It was a way for illiterate men to memorize spiritually supported doctrines and have them with them always. After all no where in the Bible does it teach that Jesus was created. It does however say that He was begotten. IHS jim

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by MacG

The CJCLDS really believes Jesus is God the Son second person of the Trinity? The Trinty where the Holy Spirit is a person? Because that is what he meant.

Perhaps you misread the comment?

Yes...this a interesting topic indeed. We say he is the "Son of God"; one says we do not the other says we believe God the Father has sex with Mary. Quite a racket you guys have built. See Mosiah 5: 7...if the fact the whole book will make it clear and could pull many out of darkness.