What are the requirements to be a Christian?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

You know, Billy, Reformed theology does not comprise all of Christianity.

You know Sword I never once said that it did. I took the gentler approach and clearly stated that there are differences of opinion in a few areas of among Christians, and that I respect their beliefs. But you and your buddy Erik have came out swinging and I am not sure why. You have made this an issue IMO not me. And you continue to make this an issue. Other than a brief reply to a question by BigJ this subject never once came up on this thread, until of course you brought it up.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I gave you two how about addressing them?

Billy, I don't have time for games. I gave you several verses and you never addressed a single one of them. Now you want me to address you instead. You ask the same things over and over because you do not like the answers we give you. If you wish to remain a lone wolf christian, that's up to you.

What did I post about the story of the Philippian Jailer? Did you read it or just skim through? What was it Paul said he needed to do in order to be saved? BELIEVE! He wasn't yet regenerated and he wanted to know what to do. Belief therefore, precedes regeneration (conversion) He asked "What must I DO? Paul did not say. You can't do anything. You're too depraved! Paul said this is what you must do. Believe on the Lord Jesus.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Billy, I don't have time for games. I gave you several verses and you never addressed a single one of them.

Who is playing games now? You of course. I gave you verses from John 3 and John 1. Ignore them if you want. I understand.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

If you wish to remain a lone wolf christian, that's up to you.

I have never ever in my years of being a Christian had such aggressive opposition to differences in opinion than I have had with both you and Erik. I have many friends who are Arminian. In fact the couple that gave my wife the anti-Mormon book are Arminian and we enjoy talking about our differences, see each other's point of view, and in the end respect each other's differences.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

What was it Paul said he needed to do in order to be saved?

You bring up Paul. Did Paul on his own decide to one day put faith in Christ and repent?

[Billyray]

Acts 9 NIV
1 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” 5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”


Was Paul actively seeking Jesus and decided to one day place his faith in Christ on his own?

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You know Sword I never once said that it did. I took the gentler approach and clearly stated that there are differences of opinion in a few areas of among Christians, and that I respect their beliefs. But you and your buddy Erik have came out swinging and I am not sure why. .

It is because you are mistaken in some of what you believe the bible teaches. You quote James White and other men. Not interested in that Billy. I want to know what GOD said. You are on here all day telling us that we are wrong. If you are a christian, and I believe you are, you would be willing to listen.

Originally Posted by Billyray

You know exactly what I believe. A person is regenerated first which then leads to faith in Christ. Erik etc. believe faith precedes regeneration.

By your statement above you just said that regeneration comes BEFORE faith. Regeneration first, then faith. I had posted that Regeneration means that one is born again or born from above. You said you agree. If you did agree then you would believe that regeneration and conversion which includes faith are the same EXACT thing!

Where does John 1:12,13 teach that regeneration precedes faith? I'm sorry buddy but you are confused.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

If you did agree then you would believe that regeneration and conversion which includes faith are the same EXACT thing!

Regeneration is not the same thing as conversion (faith and repentance). If it were then you cause yourself to be born again.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Where does John 1:12,13 teach that regeneration precedes faith? I'm sorry buddy but you are confused.

I am confused. Now you are starting to use inflammatory language. How Christian of you. Lets look at the verses

John 1 NIV

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Can you be born by the will of the flesh or your own will according to these verses?

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Sword are you the one that causes yourself to be born again OR is this a work of God?

You said you were regenerated first before conversion which includes faith. If regeneration precedes faith, then this would make faith unnecessary since the person would already be saved. If a person is regenerated, then he is born of God, a member of God’s family and a possessor of eternal life. If you are a member of God’s family and a possessor of eternal life, then you are already saved. So what need is there for faith?

This is what the bible teaches Billy:

Believe and thou shalt live! "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on Me hath everlasting life" (John 6:47). "That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:15). Reformed theology says, "live and thou shalt believe!" John 1:12 does not say this: "But as many as have been regenerated, to them gave He the power to believe on His Name, even to those who have become the children of God." Notice also that John 20:31 says, "believing ye might have life." It does not say, "having life ye might believe." In his helpless and hopeless condition the sinner is told to LOOK to the Lord Jesus Christ AND LIVE (John 3:14-16; Numbers 21)

Reformed theology teaches that a person must have life in order to believe. Jesus taught that a person must believe (come to Christ) in order to have life (John 5:40). To "come to Christ" is synonymous with "believing on Him" (John 6:35,37,40). Why do people not believe on Christ? Is it because they have not been regenerated or because they refuse to come to Christ by faith (John 5:40; 2 Thess. 2:10,12)

This is what God's word says Billy. You cannot change the Truth

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

If you did agree then you would believe that regeneration and conversion which includes faith are the same EXACT thing!

Really? Lets look at what you said in a prior post

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Regeneration means that one has been born again or born from above (John 3:3, 5, 7, 8). Conversion occurs when sinners turn to God in repentance and faith for salvation.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

You said you were regenerated first before conversion which includes faith. If regeneration precedes faith, then this would make faith unnecessary since the person would already be saved.

Reformed camp, the ordo salutis is
1) election
2) predestination
3) gospel call
4) inward call
5) regeneration
6) conversion (faith & repentance)
7) justification
8) sanctification
9) glorification

A person is NOT justified until he is converted. Haven't we went over this before?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Reformed theology teaches that a person must have life in order to believe.

They teach that people are spiritually DEAD not wounded and because we are spiritually dead we will never seek out God on our own. Arminians teach that you are spiritually wounded not spiritually dead and thus are able to seek out God on your own.

[Billyray]

You know Sword this was a good thread until you ****ed in. I hope that this thread does not get deleted because of your derail.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You know Sword this was a good thread until you ****ed in. I hope that this thread does not get deleted because of your derail.

I didn't derail anything. I merely called you out on your erroneous belief that regeneration comes before faith. This thread is about what are the requirements for being a Christian and I gave the truth from God's word.. The LDS need to know what God said.

It was a nice thread to you Billy, because no one challenged you with the Scriptures. No one wants to. Others have tried to talk to you, but you have dismissed all of us. You prefer to be the lone wolf christian and when someone tries to show you your error, you close your ears..

Anyway, I'm done. I wish you had a teachable heart, Billy

[alanmolstad]

To be a christian you must believe in the resurrection of Christ..

There is no other requirement.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Anyway, I'm done. I wish you had a teachable heart, Billy

Sword you ***ume that you are right and I am wrong. That is your is your problem now and that has been your problem in the past in our discussions.

I understand that we have differences of opinion. You have scriptures that back your point of view. I have scriptures that back my point of view. If it was a clear cut issue then there would not be any debate. I think I have a fair understanding of your position and I respect it. I have a different position yet you don't respect mine. You and Erik have had this personal mission to prove me wrong at any cost and I am not sure why but one thing I am sure about is that this is evident to anyone reading this thread.

BTW you asked me to give you a couple of verses as to why I believe the way I do. I gave them to you and instead of at least addressing them and trying to see my point of view you called me confused.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

To be a christian you must believe in the resurrection of Christ..

There is no other requirement.

Thanks Alan for trying to get us back on track.

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Thanks Alan for trying to get us back on track.

So you agree with Alan that the only requirement for being a true christian is belief in the resurrection?

[alanmolstad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdmIQkX7_no


Only faith in the Resurrection makes a person a Christian...

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

So you agree with Alan that the only requirement for being a true christian is belief in the resurrection?

I believe that a Christian is defined by faith in Christ and regeneration.


And Erik what are the requirements to be a Christian?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

So you agree with Alan that the only requirement for being a true christian is belief in the resurrection?

Erik will you give me an honest answer?

You don't think Alan is a Christian do you?

[glm1978]

Billy,

John 1:12-13 teaches that one must be spiritually and supernaturally reborn to become regenerated. First one must receive Christ as Savior before this can happen. It is like light and dark. The light of God cannot dwell within a dark heart, so conversion first and regeneration second.

[BigJulie]

Jill, isn't it time to delete another thread and ban a few more Mormons as per your standard MO (mode of operation)?

For the readers, this disagreement that has been going from thread to thread does not involve Mormons but for whatever reason, the Mormons keep getting banned.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by glm1978

so conversion first and regeneration second.

So who came in 3rd?