Why Christianity is the truth

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

How about this, Mary conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost but not OF the Holy Ghost. Yes

Yes

Now, was Jesus of the Holy Bible the only begotten of the Father of the Holy Bible, true or false? (See John 1:14) I say Yes

Well, we're getting somewhere anyways. So we have a yes to the second question and a half a yes to the first. That's a good start, but half a yes, is still a half of a no.

[Snow Patrol]

Care to answer this?

Now, was Jesus of the Holy Bible the only begotten of the Father of the Holy Bible, true or false? (See John 1:14) I say Yes

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Care to answer this?

Now, was Jesus of the Holy Bible the only begotten of the Father of the Holy Bible, true or false? (See John 1:14) I say Yes

Yes, and Yes, and Yes, oh how many yes do you want?

[Snow Patrol]

Ok, now explain how your first question and my question back to you are reconciled in your mind.

Jesus can only be begotten/conceived by one of the two, either the Holy Ghost or the Father.

[RealFakeHair]

[QUOTE=Snow Patrol;149077]Ok, now explain how your first question and my question back to you are reconciled in your mind.

Jesus can only be begotten/conceived by one of the two, either the Holy Ghost or the Father.[/QUOTE

The question is a question in mormon think, and not a question in Christian terms. Begotten and conceived in Christian term are two different things, but in mormon think they are the same, so which is it. So my question remains; " Jesus can only be begotten/conceived by one of the two, either the Holy Ghost or the Father?

[Snow Patrol]

All you did was say they mean different things. How, in your mind, are they different? What makes the terms different? How can Jesus be conceived of the Holy Ghost and at the same time be begotten of the Father?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

All you did was say they mean different things. How, in your mind, are they different? What makes the terms different? How can Jesus be conceived of the Holy Ghost and at the same time be begotten of the Father?

We must always remember Christians and mormon use the same words but have different definitions. Here is just one of them; begotten, in mormon think, begotten is of the flesh and spirit in mormon heaven and in the flesh in mortal human terms here on earth. Conceived is the same in mormon heaven as well in mortal human earth.
We Christians believe Jesus of the Holy Bible is both the begotten Son of God here on earth as well in Heaven. We do not believe God of the Holy Bible came down to earth in a body of flesh and bone to have a physical relationship with his spirit daughter Mary to conceive The True Son of God.
Concieved in mormon think is a relationship between a immortal with a mortal.
We Christians believe there was no relationship with a immortal with a mortal in conception of Jesus of the Holy Bible.
We Christians believe it was by the power of the Holy Ghost, ie Spiritual, yes a miracle conception, leaving Mary a Virgin.
In simple Christian terms, Jesus of the Holy Bible The only Begotten Son of God by the conception of the Holy Ghost.
In momon think the mormon jesus was conceived and begotten in the flesh by a natural course of events just as you were begotten by your father in the flesh, ie a sexual realationship.

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

We must always remember Christians and mormon use the same words but have different definitions. Here is just one of them; begotten, in mormon think, begotten is of the flesh and spirit in mormon heaven and in the flesh in mortal human terms here on earth. Conceived is the same in mormon heaven as well in mortal human earth.
We Christians believe Jesus of the Holy Bible is both the begotten Son of God here on earth as well in Heaven. We do not believe God of the Holy Bible came down to earth in a body of flesh and bone to have a physical relationship with his spirit daughter Mary to conceive The True Son of God.
Concieved in mormon think is a relationship between a immortal with a mortal.
We Christians believe there was no relationship with a immortal with a mortal in conception of Jesus of the Holy Bible.
We Christians believe it was by the power of the Holy Ghost, ie Spiritual, yes a miracle conception, leaving Mary a Virgin.
In simple Christian terms, Jesus of the Holy Bible The only Begotten Son of God by the conception of the Holy Ghost.
In momon think the mormon jesus was conceived and begotten in the flesh by a natural course of events just as you were begotten by your father in the flesh, ie a sexual realationship.

All I was asking for was your view and understanding of the words and terms, NOT your erroneous views of what LDS believe.

Now, the LDS believe that Mary was "overshadowed"/power of the Holy Ghost and through that power the Father begat Jesus, thus making Him the Father and Jesus the Only Begotten Son of the Father. Maybe you overlooked something I posted earlier, Ezra T Benson said "He was the Only Begotten Son of our Heavenly Father in the flesh—the only child whose mortal body was begotten by our Heavenly Father. His mortal mother, Mary, was called a virgin, both before and after she gave birth." Thus a virgin before and AFTER Jesus' birth. Can't still be a virgin if she had physical relations. That is official LDS teachings.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

All I was asking for was your view and understanding of the words and terms, NOT your erroneous views of what LDS believe.

Now, the LDS believe that Mary was "overshadowed"/power of the Holy Ghost and through that power the Father begat Jesus, thus making Him the Father and Jesus the Only Begotten Son of the Father. Maybe you overlooked something I posted earlier, Ezra T Benson said "He was the Only Begotten Son of our Heavenly Father in the flesh—the only child whose mortal body was begotten by our Heavenly Father. His mortal mother, Mary, was called a virgin, both before and after she gave birth." Thus a virgin before and AFTER Jesus' birth. Can't still be a virgin if she had physical relations. That is official LDS teachings.

Here we have another word I like erroneous What is erroneous is the LDSinc. Teaching by your LDSinc. prophets and teachers. Yes, Mary was called virgin, but why? Answer because Mary had sex with an immortal mormon god and not a mortal human, thus in mormon think you can say Mary was indeed a virgin in the strangest difinition.
However what you can't explain is why Joseph Smith jr, and Brigham Young went out of their way to give explanation that made no sense. They tell us the mormon god came down from his mormon heaven to in a natural way conceive/begot his mormon son jesus to his earthy daughter Mary in the same manner as you were begotten by your father. Now tell me once again how were you begotten by your father, and was it natural?
The fact is LDSinc. would have been better off if Joseph and Brigham, just had not try and add to the Holy Bible.

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Here we have another word I like erroneous What is erroneous is the LDSinc. Teaching by your LDSinc. prophets and teachers. Yes, Mary was called virgin, but why? Answer because Mary had sex with an immortal mormon god and not a mortal human, thus in mormon think you can say Mary was indeed a virgin in the strangest difinition.

Wrong.

However what you can't explain is why Joseph Smith jr, and Brigham Young went out of their way to give explanation that made no sense. They tell us the mormon god came down from his mormon heaven to in a natural way conceive/begot his mormon son jesus to his earthy daughter Mary in the same manner as you were begotten by your father.

It has been explained to you already. Sorry, but I can only extrapolate from your constant reference to women and sex in this thread and in threads on totally different topics that this is a preoccupation for you and no matter what any LDS says, you have it on your brain and are incapable of rational discourse. End of discussion.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

So are you saying that the God the Father is the father of Jesus? Earlier, James said that the Holy Spirit conceived/begat, or whatever you want to call it, Jesus. So why don't you guys take a moment and decide amongst yourselves what mainstream Christianity believes.

Actually, James also said that the Holy Ghost is also the Father, so with the cultists of Anti-LDS Inc. it gets confusing trying to converse about our beliefs when they are so scattered on their own.

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by Sir

Actually, James also said that the Holy Ghost is also the Father, so with the cultists of Anti-LDS Inc. it gets confusing trying to converse about our beliefs when they are so scattered on their own.

Another issue is that they don't just answer a question about their beliefs. They have to add all this stuff about what we apparently believe even though we have told them numerous times that they are incorrect in their ****ysis of our beliefs.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

So are you saying that the God the Father is the father of Jesus?

God the Father is the Father. Jesus is the Son. And the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

Now how about answering some of my questions about what your leaders have said. Fair enough?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Another issue is that they don't just answer a question about their beliefs.

Sure we do. The ones who don't answer are you and the other LDS on this board.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

Actually, James also said that the Holy Ghost is also the Father, so with the cultists of Anti-LDS Inc.

James gave you a verse on this. Why don't you quote it so we can talk about it.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Why worry about it?

I am not worried about it but you certainly should be worried about what your own prophet said because you and I both know that what he said was false and you are doing your best to try and explain it away.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Wrong.



It has been explained to you already. Sorry, but I can only extrapolate from your constant reference to women and sex in this thread and in threads on totally different topics that this is a preoccupation for you and no matter what any LDS says, you have it on your brain and are incapable of rational discourse. End of discussion.

Once again, I will say, the mormon jesus was begotten in the same way you were begotten by your father. In of story!

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Once again, I will say, the mormon jesus was begotten in the same way you were begotten by your father. In of story!

This is more than a denial of Matthew 1:18.. It is a denial of the words of Jesus in John 4:24 (God is Spirit), Luke 24:39 (A spirit doesn't have a body of flesh and bone), Colossians 1:15 (Jesus is the image of the Invisible God).. Instead they teach as doctrine the commandments men.. That God has a body as Tangible as man's (D&C 130:22). That Jesus was begotten of that man-god in the same way any mortal father begets his children (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 546-547). Brigham Young taught this same thing I used McConkie to quote.. He said "The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood--was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers (JofD Vol 8 p,115). Sex is a leading doctrine of Mormonism.. It is the method the LDS teach was the way Jesus was conceived, it is taught that it is how our spirit were conceived. Alexander L. Baugh of "Latter-day Saints believe that all mankind were begotten as individual spirit children of God, with individual agency, prior to being born into mortality." (Harold B Lee Library, BYU Provo. http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/First_Estate).. The Idea that sex isn't a huge part of mormonism even in the resurrection is inaccurate.. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Ok, now explain how your first question and my question back to you are reconciled in your mind.

Jesus can only be begotten/conceived by one of the two, either the Holy Ghost or the Father.

Maybe there is a 3rd option for Trinitarians:

c) Jesus was begotten/conceived by BOTH God the Father AND God the Holy Spirit.

So He has 2 dads and no mom.

Gee, if I have to choose between the LDS belief that Jesus has a Father and a Mother, or Option C, I think the LDS belief is less weird.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Maybe there is a 3rd option for Trinitarians:

c) Jesus was begotten/conceived by BOTH God the Father AND God the Holy Spirit.

So He has 2 dads and no mom.

Gee, if I have to choose between the LDS belief that Jesus has a Father and a Mother, or Option C, I think the LDS belief is less weird.

This talk between you and Snow shows that neither of you have learned a thing about the Trinity.. How many Gods does the doctrine teach? Not 3, just ONE.. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one Being. They are three separate Persons but one Essence.. This God laid down His glory and took on flesh. He was born of a virgin who conceived the flesh of Jesus (GOD) by the Holy Spirit (GOD), giving the honor to the Father (GOD).. God is an invisible Spirit (John 4:24, Colossians 1:15).. There should be no argument about that, but the LDS love to add to the scripture in order to make it fit into their idea of what they want the scripture to teach.. Not "God is Spirit" but "God has a spirit". Not that God is "the invisible God" but That he is the god "that isn't seen".

Your belief in the scripture is pointed out as wanting in this thread.. You believe the Bible as far as it doesn't disagree with you man invented doctrines. If it disagrees it must be translated incorrectly.

No God is one Lord and therefore He was begotten of that one God. Mary was found with child of the Holy Ghost. No mother you say.. I see the Bible as countering your false teaching.. The flesh of Jesus had one Father, God and one mother, Mary. If you would choose between the LDS beliefs and the Christian beliefs you should consider which is more Biblical.. That would NOT be the weird teachings of mormonism.. IHS jim

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Maybe there is a 3rd option for Trinitarians:

c) Jesus was begotten/conceived by BOTH God the Father AND God the Holy Spirit.

So He has 2 dads and no mom.

Gee, if I have to choose between the LDS belief that Jesus has a Father and a Mother, or Option C, I think the LDS belief is less weird.

How bout 1.2 TRILLION obtions for LDSinc. Maybe the mormon jesus was begotten/ conceived by his mormon god-father, and his mormon grand-father-god, and his mormon-father-god great-greart-mormon god, and his mormon great,great,great grand father mormon god, and so unto all infinity, or something.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Maybe there is a 3rd option for Trinitarians:

c) Jesus was begotten/conceived by BOTH God the Father AND God the Holy Spirit.

So He has 2 dads and no mom.

Gee, if I have to choose between the LDS belief that Jesus has a Father and a Mother, or Option C, I think the LDS belief is less weird.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have eternally existed which means even before Jesus' earthly birth. So you are just trying to make up a straw man argument.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Gee, if I have to choose between the LDS belief that Jesus has a Father and a Mother, or Option C, I think the LDS belief is less weird.

So the LDS viewpoint is that God the Father is the literal Father of Jesus by giving his "seed" to Mary via "natural action"?

[GSwarthout]

Help me to understand, James:

Originally Posted by James Banta

This God laid down His glory and took on flesh.

What does it mean that He laid down His glory? Was He somehow changed by the act? Was He not God the Father anymore?

Originally Posted by James Banta

He was born of a virgin who conceived the flesh of Jesus (GOD) by the Holy Spirit (GOD), giving the honor to the Father (GOD)

What does "giving honor to the Father" mean in this context?

Greg

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by James Banta

This is more than a denial of Matthew 1:18.. It is a denial of the words of Jesus in John 4:24 (God is Spirit), Luke 24:39 (A spirit doesn't have a body of flesh and bone), Colossians 1:15 (Jesus is the image of the Invisible God).. Instead they teach as doctrine the commandments men.. That God has a body as Tangible as man's (D&C 130:22). That Jesus was begotten of that man-god in the same way any mortal father begets his children (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 546-547). Brigham Young taught this same thing I used McConkie to quote.. He said "The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood--was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers (JofD Vol 8 p,115). Sex is a leading doctrine of Mormonism.. It is the method the LDS teach was the way Jesus was conceived, it is taught that it is how our spirit were conceived. Alexander L. Baugh of "Latter-day Saints believe that all mankind were begotten as individual spirit children of God, with individual agency, prior to being born into mortality." (Harold B Lee Library, BYU Provo. http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/First_Estate).. The Idea that sex isn't a huge part of mormonism even in the resurrection is inaccurate.. IHS jim

Bright red larger script, bold type. Why are you yelling?