The Calvinist-Arminian debate

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I also noticed that Billy was unable to answer my point about if God asked us to do things he knew were were unable to do?

I think we all understand that if a parent asks a child to do things that they simply are unable to do, that it would be then wrong for that parent to condemn the child for attempting to do what was asked of them and then failing.

So true. When a person believes in something so strongly, its hard to convince them of their errors. I don't know how much exposure Billy has had to the truth, but he went from Mormonism to Calvinism. Both are extreme with some false teachings. Only the Holy Spirit can open Billy's eyes. I pray that happens.

[alanmolstad]

what is true is that this question is both important , and a moot point at the same time.

The question of human Free Will is interesting and appeals to some Christians who study this issue.

But the thing I like to point out is that regardless of the position on this issue a guy takes, nothing actually changes.
There is really no difference between going to a church that teaches that man has Free Will and going to a church that teaches that man has no free will.

Nothing actually is any different.

Oh there might be a sermon or two that is very different, but that's about it.

This is basically an academic question with no real significance to it by itself.

Thus the foolishness of some Christians to get all in-your-face excited over this question is plain to see.

So what is the merit of this debate?
The benefit of this debate is that it shows the Lost world that Christians are not robots where we all have to think the same.

This question also is a good one for people in CULTS to follow as it brings to their attention a subject they may have forgotten as they got swept up in the CULT......

"Freedom of thought"

Thats the really only thing about this debate I find much merit in.
That we in the Christian church have a freedom that you cant share if you are in a CULT.

Im not in a CULT....one of the proofs of this is that I am always free to totally disagree with my own church leadership.

There is liberty to debate in the Christian church.
There is freedom of thought, freedom to express one's thoughts that is about the 1st thing a person gives up when they become a member of a CULT.

There is merit in being free to make one's own mistakes.
people in CULTs are kept from thinking for themselves, its the trade-off the person makes to be what they consider always 'right"

The need to be always right means you have to get rid of the desire to be always "free"

I desire to be free more than I desire to be always right., But a person in a CULT has a different goal than mine.

That's why guys like me dont last long in a CULT.
Guys like me call into questions things that go against the Bible....We stand up and disagree on points where we see error.
We dont give a darn if this makes our church look bad to others....

We dont give a rip about marching in lock-step with our church leadership.....

Freedom means more to us that our church looking good.

[alanmolstad]

The Calvinist-Arminian debate

another thing to keep in mind is that the Calvinist-Arminian debate never ends in any difference for people.

This means that while we have many members of the christian church that fight very hard to prove they are correct on this issue, the net result of all their struggle is......"Nothing"

Nothing changes.
The life of the average Christian does not change at all from going from one side of this debate to the other.

This then means that this whole issue falls into the category of being a rather minor issue with no real effect on Christians.

Compare this question to say another question that gets debated from time to time...like..."Baptism"

Now Baptism is a VERY IMPORTANT question for people to debate as the results of that debate can have a very real effect on people's lives.

The age someone get baptized, the steps a person had to take to get baptized, and the form of that baptism all matter to average Christians.
The issue of baptism is far more important that the debate over the truth of Calvinism.


why is this fact important ?
Its important because of the fact that on this and other forums I have watched guys go crazy over the Calvinist-Arminian debate to the point they ended up getting banned.

think of that for a moment....

a guy gets banned over the most minor of issues in the Christian church?


how does that happen?

I think the reason is, that some people just dont think before they speak or write.


What advice would I give a guy who has ended up banned from a message forum over his total failed attempt to have a nice conversation over the most minor of issues?

I would tell that guy that he needs to "Repent"
To "Repent" means to "Re" - "think"...or to "Think again"

In more modern wording the phrase would be "Spend some of your new free time thinking over how you ended up where you are so that next time you dont end up there once again"

[alanmolstad]

UPDATE:

The Bible Answer Man seems to support my views!

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?ui...350#post111350

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Only the Holy Spirit can open Billy's eyes. I pray that happens.

Sword I hope that God opens up your eyes because as I see it you went from Catholicism to Arminianism (despite your denial). Do you realize that the original teachings from the Protestant Reformation were Reformed beliefs? The ideas of Arminian came later and were renounced at the Synod of Dort.