Dilemma of Being ****sexual

[Heart2Heart]

My relatives and I have had many discussions about ****sexuality, since a person in my family is ****sexual. Unfortunately, one of the family members approve of the behavior, because she believes the person was born with a genetic defect. What is your view on this? Do you agree with the person's belief that a ****sexual is born this way? Do you think it is a genetic defect?

I do not believe it is a genetic defect, but I think the individual who was born with it, is predisposed to practice it. Do you think he or she can control their behavior?

[sayso]

Originally Posted by Heart2Heart

My relatives and I have had many discussions about ****sexuality, since a person in my family is ****sexual. Unfortunately, one of the family members approve of the behavior, because she believes the person was born with a genetic defect. What is your view on this? Do you agree with the person's belief that a ****sexual is born this way? Do you think it is a genetic defect?

I do not believe it is a genetic defect, but I think the individual who was born with it, is predisposed to practice it. Do you think he or she can control their behavior?

As a Christian I believe that they are born in sin as is everyone else. I believe it is a sin just as lying, stealing, adultery, fornication, and gossiping are all sins.

****sexual sin is no worse nor better than any other sin in God's eyes. God so loved the "world" that He gave His only begotten Son that "whoever" believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

With faith and after giving oneself to Christ we repent (change).
The Bible says that when one is born again that the old man must die and the person becomes a new creation in Christ.


Colossians 3

1 IF THEN you have been raised with Christ [to a new life, thus sharing His resurrection from the dead], aim at and seek the [rich, eternal treasures] that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 And set your minds and keep them set on what is above (the higher things), not on the things that are on the earth.
3 For [as far as this world is concerned] you have died, and your [new, real] life is hidden with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, Who is our life, appears, then you also will appear with Him in [the splendor of His] glory.
5 So kill (deaden, deprive of power) the evil desire lurking in your members [those animal impulses and all that is earthly in you that is employed in sin]: sexual vice, impurity, sensual appe***es, unholy desires, and all greed and covetousness, for that is idolatry (the deifying of self and other created things instead of God).


Interesting that Paul says here that all sin is idolatry or the deifying of self and other created things instead of God. As I understand it the deifying of self is basically making yourself god of your own life (doing what you want to do instead of what God wants you to do). This is the choice that all people make.

So the focus shouldn't be on which sin has been committed but that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and need a Savior to deliver us from the bondage of sin.

[GateKeeper]

Originally Posted by Heart2Heart

My relatives and I have had many discussions about ****sexuality, since a person in my family is ****sexual. Unfortunately, one of the family members approve of the behavior, because she believes the person was born with a genetic defect. What is your view on this? Do you agree with the person's belief that a ****sexual is born this way? Do you think it is a genetic defect?

I do not believe it is a genetic defect, but I think the individual who was born with it, is predisposed to practice it. Do you think he or she can control their behavior?

I love you user name "Heart2Heart" it makes one feel as if the conversation will be one filled with understanding. With that being said, ****sexuality is a sin like any other. We all have our shortcomings when it comes to living according to G-ds will, but willful acts of disobedience, such as living a ****sexual lifestyle are to be shunned, regardless of whether it is a genetic defect, or not.

I myself am bipolar, and I have what some might call an addictive personality. Meaning I am prone to addiction. (Yes, it is a genetic defect) My life is witness to this reality. I make no excuses for myself, I abuse things without thought of consequence. Some might call addiction gluttony, but whatever one calls it, it is a sin, and I know better that to allow myself to fall back into such practices.

Scripture tells us that we have to die to our old selves (Nature), and be made new in the spirit of our minds. It is a battle, and one we face daily. There is no easy answer to ****sexuality, or addiction for that matter. We simply have to allow Christ to reside within us, and let Him help us fight against our propensity to practice such lifestyles.

Yes, ****sexuality is a sin, but if one can refrain from the practice of, and seek G-d, they can, and will be set free. Such is my story when it comes to addiction. I have been clean for a very long time now, and since my addiction included sex, I have also become celibate, so it is certainly possible to refrain from our sinful practices. I can personally attest to this reality. We simply have to desire the things of G-d above our own ...

Blessings

GK

[Heart2Heart]

Originally Posted by GateKeeper

I love you user name "Heart2Heart" it makes one feel as if the conversation will be one filled with understanding. With that being said, ****sexuality is a sin like any other. We all have our shortcomings when it comes to living according to G-ds will, but willful acts of disobedience, such as living a ****sexual lifestyle are to be shunned, regardless of whether it is a genetic defect, or not.

Thank you. I like the nickname also, because I also feel the name indicates understanding and caring.

Originally Posted by GateKeeper

I myself am bipolar, and I have what some might call an addictive personality. Meaning I am prone to addiction. (Yes, it is a genetic defect) My life is witness to this reality. I make no excuses for myself, I abuse things without thought of consequence. Some might call addiction gluttony, but whatever one calls it, it is a sin, and I know better that to allow myself to fall back into such practices.

I know a person who struggles with bipolar, and this individual has many challenges. But, I am learning that all of us have our own cross to bear in regards to life's challenges. Everyone has the propensity to have an addiction whether it be sex, cars, games, etc. I've had to literally walk away from my addiction, because I couldn't enjoy life in general. God gives other avenues or openings for us to get out, when we are about to face a struggle.

[IncitingRiots]

****sexuals are more often than not born that way. I believe that early life experience can have an effect on the people we become later in life, but ultimately I think that is just they way people are born. If God made man in his imagine then God made ****sexuals in his image as well, therefore god must be part gay himself. Since God was the designer, why does he blame the people for the "faults" he gave them? Seems like a pretty poor excuse for a supreme being!

[Columcille]

Why do you presuppose that they are born that way? What evidence is there to suggest it?

[IncitingRiots]

What, you think people choose to be gay or straight?

[Trinity]

Originally Posted by IncitingRiots

What, you think people choose to be gay or straight?

This is a cultural question. People raised in a Judeo-Christian context are juggling with this notion of choosing. However, in the pagan Roman Empire it was a question of preference. They were not choosing. There was no abnormality for the romans, and even for the greeks. And no guilt.

We are our culture.

Trinity

[Columcille]

Originally Posted by IncitingRiots

What, you think people choose to be gay or straight?

I am just asking for your evidence. What differences are there in physical make-up at the time of birth? Can you verify evidence that will tell the parents that their child is gay? It is for the most part, ***umed by most parents that the child is normal and hence born a female or male will be heterosexual, and is treated in such a manner. If you can pinpoint evidence that a child is going to be gay, the parents should rearrange the child's clothing fashion, room appearance, and such to make them lead a healthy gay lifestyle. As is, no such evidence has been provided by you that children are born gay.

Until such time, I view the propensity of the gay lifestyle to be one where their psyche has been injured or neglected, and in some cases... undisciplined or overly disciplined. I base this on my own experience being molested by another guy and my going to Alternatives, a sister ministry located in San Diego based off of Exodus International that extends its ministry to people within dysfunctional families. I believe Catholic Courage also bases their ministry to the ****sexual with a similiar approach.

[IncitingRiots]

If you are asking for evidence of a gay gene, none exists. That doesn't mean, however, that no evidence will be found. The fact remains that most people who are gay are born that way all of my gay friends have told me that they didn't choose to be gay, nor was there any molestation or anything else in their life that made them gay. It was simply the way they were born.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by IncitingRiots

If you are asking for evidence of a gay gene, none exists. That doesn't mean, however, that no evidence will be found. The fact remains that most people who are gay are born that way all of my gay friends have told me that they didn't choose to be gay, nor was there any molestation or anything else in their life that made them gay. It was simply the way they were born.

Indeed. No gay gene has been found. Neither has a "straight gene" been found.

Nonetheless, the evidence still points to at least some genetic component involved in determining sexual preference and identification.

The old Nature vs. Nurture argument...I don't find it particularly useful - the fact is that according to all the evidence, at least for some people, sexual orientation appears to be at least partly innate.

[Columcille]

Originally Posted by asdf

Indeed. No gay gene has been found. Neither has a "straight gene" been found.

Nonetheless, the evidence still points to at least some genetic component involved in determining sexual preference and identification.

The old Nature vs. Nurture argument...I don't find it particularly useful - the fact is that according to all the evidence, at least for some people, sexual orientation appears to be at least partly innate.

Asdf, please produce such evidence rather than ***uming it is fact.

Inciting Riots, molestation is one of the ways, but not the only way that ****sexuality is introduced. There are many aspects that in most cases is a gradual raping or wearing down of the conscience, most of it is related to what parents teach or teach too much, or provide a gap by an absense of teaching. Television is one medium where we are taught that ****sexuality is acceptable. Parents who are abusive or overly strict provide a natural reaction and rebellion. Or parents are complacent and themselves teach that they are alright with it. In many cases, I would say that the living examples of the parents in their private lives is full of hypocricy, which most families may not share with their friends. Also, it is a natural tendency for people who go through trauma to suppress the event. I would not take such experience and sayings so lightly at face value; the human psyche is quite complex.

[IncitingRiots]

Wow you took alot of time to essentially say nothing at all.

I was raised to believe that ****sexuality is acceptable, yet I didn't turn out gay. I spent quite a bit of time around gay family members, yet I didn't turn out gay. I watched alot of television, yet I didn't turn out gay. Maybe the reason I am straight is because I was "molested" by a 14 y/o female baby sitter when I was 10. I put molested in quotes because even though that is how society would view it, I remember enjoying my time with that girl.

Maybe the reason I am not gay is because I wasn't born that way.

[Columcille]

Well, it explains a lot to me what you just relayed. You'll get a lot of self-praise from people who think like you, but on a board like this... I think you just ruined your credibility. I tell you what... you are motivating me enough to do some serous prayer for you.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Columcille

Asdf, please produce such evidence rather than ***uming it is fact.

You have just as much access to the evidence as I do.

There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. The main reasons cited include genetic and environmental factors, likely in combination.

The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated that "sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences".

The American Psychological ***ociation has stated that "there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people". It stated that, for most people, sexual orientation is determined at an early age.

The American Psychiatric ***ociation has stated that, "to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for ****sexuality. Similarly, no specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for ****sexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse".
-Wikipedia (sources there)

From there, also see the evidence for Environmental (nurture) and Biology (nature).

[Columcille]

Asdf,
the quotes you gave only substantiate their lack of evidence. I have a bible and Tradition, and in terms of experience with an affiliate of Exodus International, and in terms of a rationale ideal and experience that is shared in the purpose of reproductive organs... I should say that a workable quadrilateral exists that God is against ****sexuality.

[IncitingRiots]

Originally Posted by Columcille

Well, it explains a lot to me what you just relayed. You'll get a lot of self-praise from people who think like you, but on a board like this... I think you just ruined your credibility. I tell you what... you are motivating me enough to do some serous prayer for you.

Well, then I guess it is a good thing that I don't care whether or not you think I am credible. Pray all you want, you will only be wasting your time.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Columcille

Asdf,
the quotes you gave only substantiate their lack of evidence. I have a bible and Tradition, and in terms of experience with an affiliate of Exodus International, and in terms of a rationale ideal and experience that is shared in the purpose of reproductive organs... I should say that a workable quadrilateral exists that God is against ****sexuality.

We weren't talking about whether "God is against" ****sexuality - don't change the subject on us here. We were discussing the factors which determine sexual orientation.

If you want to pull the Scripture card, you could cite Romans 1 and convincingly say that the cause of ****sexuality is idolatry. (Of course, that hypothesis is pretty untenable, given the mul***ude of people who realize they are gay long before they have any opportunity to explicitly reject God.)

I have a lot of respect for the fact that Exodus worked for you. However, you're an absolute outlier. The scientific consensus is that reparative therapy is potentially harmful, and its efficacy has not been proved.

[Columcille]

The going success rate of alcohol rehabilitation is not that great either, yet that doesn't stop the court from making it mandatory does it now?

If you view ****sexuality as an addiction of a thwarted fleshly state, it is a real addiction like alcoholism. Gambling, lust, and drug abuse are perhaps the biggies. Gambling's anonymous, Sex anonymous, and NA and AA spell out serious addictions. BTW, did you watch the interview with the serial killer, Ted Bundy with James Dobson? You can watch it online. http://www.focusonthefamily.com/popu...AMILYTYPE=null

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Columcille

The going success rate of alcohol rehabilitation is not that great either, yet that doesn't stop the court from making it mandatory does it now?

Well played. And of course my next move is to point out that no medical organization regards ****sexuality as a mental disorder, and that treating it as such is potentially harmful.

[Columcille]

Originally Posted by asdf

Well played. And of course my next move is to point out that no medical organization regards ****sexuality as a mental disorder, and that treating it as such is potentially harmful.

As far as I recall, medical organizations haven't advanced in finding the root cause of ****sexuality... specifically identifying it with genetics. It has always been considered a disorder up until 1973, and then it was removed not because of medical research, but by political pressure--don't you love the free love uninhibited sexual revolution of the 60s? When medicine is ruled by politics rather than science, it just goes to show you that tolerance leads to condoning and condoning into acceptable practice. The only people who say it is potentially harmful are themselves that condone such practices. I do not see this applied to the alcoholic or the gambler, simply because the effects of their addiction are more severe to those around them.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Columcille

As far as I recall, medical organizations haven't advanced in finding the root cause of ****sexuality... specifically identifying it with genetics.

We talked about that above: "There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. The main reasons cited include genetic and environmental factors, likely in combination."

It has always been considered a disorder up until 1973, and then it was removed not because of medical research, but by political pressure--don't you love the free love uninhibited sexual revolution of the 60s?

What evidence do you have that politics and "the free love uninhibited sexual revolution of the 60s" are to blame for the removal of ****sexuality as a mental disorder from DSM-II?

The only people who say it is potentially harmful are themselves that condone such practices.

Where "it" in this sentence, based on the previous post, is "treating ****sexuality as a mental illness".

Sorry, this view is not compatible with modern science or the experience of the gay and lesbian people I know.

I do not see this applied to the alcoholic or the gambler, simply because the effects of their addiction are more severe to those around them.

Indeed - because ****sexuality is not an addiction. It's an inclination.

[Columcille]

look under "mental" in the ****sexual wikipedia entry. It discusses it being removed in 1973 because political activism. This you will read in the DSM link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnos...al_orientation

PS, if modern science has located a gene identifying ****sexuals, let me know... otherwise, it means absolutely nothing to call it modern.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Columcille

look under "mental" in the ****sexual wikipedia entry. It discusses it being removed in 1973 because political activism. This you will read in the DSM link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnos...al_orientation

Thanks for the link. That apparently means something different to you than it does to me. I see protests "as well as the emergence of new data from researchers" - not, as you said, "it was removed not because of medical research, but by political pressure".

PS, if modern science has located a gene identifying ****sexuals, let me know... otherwise, it means absolutely nothing to call it modern.

Likewise, let me know when science finds the gene that identifies heterosexuals. Or the gene that identifies vegetarians. Or the gene that identifies Republicans. Or the gene that identifies Catholics.

[Trinity]

Originally Posted by asdf

Likewise, let me know when science finds the gene that identifies heterosexuals. Or the gene that identifies vegetarians. Or the gene that identifies Republicans. Or the gene that identifies Catholics.

Scientists know nothing about the genes that make a small minority of the population left-handed. Rather, people self-report that they do not choose to be left-handed or right-handed.

I am an heterosexual left-handed.

Trinity