Conservative and Liberal Christians: Winning! Losing!

[Libby]

Article by John Shore that was kind of interesting, showing the strengths and weaknesses of both liberal and conservative Christians.

http://johnshore.com/2010/01/26/cons...ich-is-better/

[Libby]

Is religion dying --or reinventing?

[Libby]

15 Ways the Bible Is Used by Christians and the GOP to Control and Malign Women

[TheSword99]

Hi Libby. I believe liberal Christians are diluting the bible. In Revelations it talks about lukewarm churches.

[alanmolstad]

libby you want me to buy a book?......

Thats seems a bit much to ask to just respond to a topic here....

is there a way to not have to buy the book to catch the main ideas?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Hi Libby. I believe liberal Christians are diluting the bible. In Revelations it talks about lukewarm churches.

I think liberal Christianity (and Progressive Christianity, in particular) are at the cutting edge of where Christianity needs to go, if it is to survive another century. The church is dying, because it is at odds with science and all that we are quickly learning about our environment. It will have to change and become more relevant to today's world. Some churches are attempting this (even some conservative churches)..

When I was growing up in the 50's, there was something like an 70% regular church attendance rate, in this country. Most people attended. Today, it's down to 30% or less.

Where I am living in Southern California, I have seen church after church lose their congregations. Many churches now lease out the building to several different congregations, in order to keep their doors open.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Libby

I think liberal Christianity (and Progressive Christianity, in particular) are at the cutting edge of where Christianity needs to go, if it is to survive another century. The church is dying, because it is at odds with science and all that we are quickly learning about our environment. It will have to change and become more relevant to today's world. Some churches are attempting this (even some conservative churches)..

When I was growing up in the 50's, there was something like an 70% regular church attendance rate, in this country. Most people attended. Today, it's down to 30% or less.

Where I am living in Southern California, I have seen church after church lose their congregations. Many churches now lease out the building to several different congregations, in order to keep their doors open.

That's the problem right there, Libby. Changing original Christianity because the modern world really doesn't want God, much less submit to Him. The Bible talks about a really big apostasy happening in the latter days. It's already happening. Lukewarm Christians, lukewarm ministers, cults, changing the truth for a lie. This is why false religions are thriving. Satan had doubled up his efforts because his days are numbered.

BTW, Christianity is not at odds with science. Science in many respects hasn't caught up.

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

That's the problem right there, Libby. Changing original Christianity because the modern world really doesn't want God, much less submit to Him. The Bible talks about a really big apostasy happening in the latter days. It's already happening. Lukewarm Christians, lukewarm ministers, cults, changing the truth for a lie. This is why false religions are thriving. Satan had doubled up his efforts because his days are numbered.

BTW, Christianity is not at odds with science. Science in many respects hasn't caught up.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I agee with Sword. You can't change Christianity because Christianity is nothing more than obedience and adherence to God. If you do that, then you're automatically falling into sin.

There's either believing in God or not believing in God.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

That's the problem right there, Libby. Changing original Christianity because the modern world really doesn't want God, much less submit to Him. The Bible talks about a really big apostasy happening in the latter days. It's already happening. Lukewarm Christians, lukewarm ministers, cults, changing the truth for a lie. This is why false religions are thriving. Satan had doubled up his efforts because his days are numbered.

BTW, Christianity is not at odds with science. Science in many respects hasn't caught up.

TS, this planet is more than 6000 years old and man most likely evolved from a lower life form. Scientists will tell you we absolutely did, no question about it...and most people accept that.

As for Christianity changing, it has changed a LOT over the centuries, which is something (for some reason) many Christians don't want to admit. I'm talking about peripheral beliefs, not really the essence or core, which has always been Christ's atonement and resurrection. But, peripheral believes can and do change. The church is not really keeping up with the culture, in that regard, especially the conservative side.

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Libby

TS, this planet is more than 6000 years old and man most likely evolved from a lower life form. Scientists will tell you we absolutely did, no question about it...and most people accept that.

As for Christianity changing, it has changed a LOT over the centuries, which is something (for some reason) many Christians don't want to admit. I'm talking about peripheral beliefs, not really the essence or core, which has always been Christ's atonement and resurrection. But, peripheral believes can and do change. The church is not really keeping up with the culture, in that regard, especially the conservative side.

The outside Church has changed alot over the centuries, but faith has always stayed the same for the real followers of Christ.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Libby

TS, this planet is more than 6000 years old and man most likely evolved from a lower life form. Scientists will tell you we absolutely did, no question about it...and most people accept that.

As for Christianity changing, it has changed a LOT over the centuries, which is something (for some reason) many Christians don't want to admit. I'm talking about peripheral beliefs, not really the essence or core, which has always been Christ's atonement and resurrection. But, peripheral believes can and do change. The church is not really keeping up with the culture, in that regard, especially the conservative side.

Are you saying you believe in evolution? If man evolved from apes then why are there still apes?

Yes, religious views do change. Just look at Mormonism and Jehovah's Witness just to name two.

No, the problem is not that the church needs to keep up with the culture. The problem is people refuse to come to God so that they may have eternal life.

[alanmolstad]

Liberal Christians are a fake religion and are destroying the churches they are members of.

They rip down what the church teaches and put in place teachings from the pit of hell....

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Liberal Christians are a fake religion and are destroying the churches they are members of.

They rip down what the church teaches and put in place teachings from the pit of hell....

Far worse than Mormonism as a cult. And perhaps nearly equal to Islam in destructive status, if not pure equal or even superior.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Are you saying you believe in evolution? If man evolved from apes then why are there still apes?

Yes, religious views do change. Just look at Mormonism and Jehovah's Witness just to name two.

No, the problem is not that the church needs to keep up with the culture. The problem is people refuse to come to God so that they may have eternal life.

Well, I think the problem is more cultural.

As for apes, there are probably hundreds of varieties, not just one strain. Likely, man is an offshoot, many thousands of years ago. That is not to say we are not God's creation. I believe we are, very much so. Genesis is allegory.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Liberal Christians are a fake religion and are destroying the churches they are members of.

They rip down what the church teaches and put in place teachings from the pit of hell....

Have to agree with you there, Alan.

[Libby]

Amazing.

If anything, the religious right is much more akin to Islam.

Liberalism is about protecting the rights of ALL.

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Libby

Amazing.

If anything, the religious right is much more akin to Islam.

Liberalism is about protecting the rights of ALL.

Nothing more wrong could be said.

[Libby]

I have no idea how someone could compare liberalism to Islam (of all things). That's just crazy.

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Libby

I have no idea how someone could compare liberalism to Islam (of all things). That's just crazy.

Islam has compulsory (spelling) charity.

The problem is, that if you make something mandatory, it's not charity.

[Libby]

When you have a democracy and can vote on whether or not these things will be provided to the poor, it is not strictly "compulsory". We have all made an agreement, as U.S. citizens, to abide by majority rule (in most cases...unless civil rights are involved), so everyone gets a say about whether or not these things are ins***uted. And, if "the people" decide they don't want them, they will vote them out or vote out the politicians who are putting them in place. We always, as a country or state, have a choice.

That is not even close to a dictatorship or rule by theocracy (as many Islamic countries have). A ridiculous comparison.

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Libby

When you have a democracy and can vote on whether or not these things will be provided to the poor, it is not strictly "compulsory". We have all made an agreement, as U.S. citizens, to abide by majority rule (in most cases...unless civil rights are involved), so everyone gets a say about whether or not these things are ins***uted. And, if "the people" decide they don't want them, they will vote them out or vote out the politicians who are putting them in place. We always, as a country or state, have a choice.

That is not even close to a dictatorship or rule by theocracy (as many Islamic countries have). A ridiculous comparison.

Just an observation, but some Maoist and Stalinist dictatorships have really been nothing but theocracies in disguise.

Those were 'athiest" nations however.

[Libby]

A theocracy, by definition, cannot be run by atheists.

Mao and Stalin were communist dictators.

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Libby

A theocracy, by definition, cannot be run by atheists.

Mao and Stalin were communist dictators.

And yet. . . they were pretty close to the Emperors of Rome in my opinion.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Libby

Amazing.

If anything, the religious right is much more akin to Islam.

Liberalism is about protecting the rights of ALL.

What liberal christians have done is deny and suppress the clear teachings in the Scriptures in order to please everybody. They make God out to be like the god in the book "The Shack." That God is all love and never chastises. Believe anything. By denying hell, they give others a false sense of security. They have diluted original Christianity and Mormonism have gone the opposite extreme. They pile on so much junk that the simple Gospel of Jesus Christ is all but recognizable.

[Libby]

Christianity is already corrupted. Has been for centuries. At least, the Progressive Christians are bringing Christ's true message of love and hope back to the people.

Love and hope vs fear, anger and retribution. I'll take love and hope, any day over the latter.