Why I Believe The Rapture Is Before The Great Tribulation

[ActRaiser]

"Comfort one another with these words. The Devil will torture and murder you and my people the Jews. There will be demons hunting non-Believers throughout the land, the waters will turn to blood, a third of the people in the world will die through war, it will cost a whole day's work to feed one man one meal, the Skies will be blacked and the great and most powerful men in the world will come to the mountains and beg them to fall on them, to hide them from the wrath of God. Those who refuse to take the ****ing Mark of the Beast will be beheaded, and a great Earthquake will shake the entire world. And then I will come and take what little survivors are left of you to Heaven. COMFORT ONE ANOTHER WITH THESE WORDS.

[alanmolstad]

what the heck is that quote from?....

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

what the heck is that quote from?....

Myself. It's a joke.

[alanmolstad]

well.....I dont get the joke.

But as for the topic itself.

I believe that the Bible teaches clearly that we will be on the earth until the end of all things.
I dont believe for a moment that the church will be taken off the earth and there will be left the unsaved to go though the end times without the church.

I believe that Jesus prayed very clearly that we not be taken away.....But he did pray that we would be protected.
that means to me that the church will be on the earth though all the days of the end times, we will face down the anti-christ...we will live though the tribulation...and we will be here to the final clock stops ticking.

[alanmolstad]

Once again to make sure new people are up to speed...


The term "Rapture" that is used a lot by the end time teachers has been given the meaning of being a moment when the church (all Christians) are removed from mthe earth and leaven behind the lost who then suffer tribulation without us.,

I totally disagree with this understanding of a rapture.

I do not believe for a second that God will remove the church and leave the lost to fend for themselves....
The church is not going to turn tail and run!

[cheachea]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Once again to make sure new people are up to speed...


The term "Rapture" that is used a lot by the end time teachers has been given the meaning of being a moment when the church (all Christians) are removed from mthe earth and leaven behind the lost who then suffer tribulation without us.,

I totally disagree with this understanding of a rapture.

I do not believe for a second that God will remove the church and leave the lost to fend for themselves....
The church is not going to turn tail and run!

Hey alanmolstad what do you think Jesus was talking about when He said, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to Escape all these things that shall come to p***, and to stand before the Son of man."-Luke 21:36

I'm asking because I genuinely want to know your interpretation of that verse. What are we Escaping from ?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by cheachea

Hey alanmolstad what do you think Jesus was talking about when He said, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to Escape all these things that shall come to p***, and to stand before the Son of man."-Luke 21:36

I'm asking because I genuinely want to know your interpretation of that verse. What are we Escaping from ?

when Jesus talked about his return, he also was talking about the fall of the temple.....and his answer tends to flip back and forth.

But we know for a fact that Jesus asked God the father NOT to take us out of the world! (see John 17:15 )

So the traditional understanding of the term "Rapture" given by the End time preachers is simply not going to happen.

so,,,,,as to your question cheachea
I believe that when you back-up and read the fuller context of the teachings that Jesus was saying there you will get the answer.
And that the answer is that Jesus was talking about escaping what was about to happen....and did happen at 70AD.

We come to the statement "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not p*** away..."
Now some people attempting to put a better face on this verse have tried to say that the "generation" Jesus was talking about were something other than the people right there listeing to him at the time.

I just dont think thats a correct understanding.

I think the "generation" Jesus was talking about was the people listening to him right then and there...
That being the case, it also points to the thing Jesus talks about with his words "ye may be accounted worthy to Escape "...is talking about the fall of the temple, and the scattering of the Jews across the world.

Remember, Jesus had in mind the fall of their country...and the more or less ending of what was know as the jewish faith with its temple at it's heart.

Jesus was pointing to the ending of all that his generation thought was going to last forever..

The ending of the religion as they knew it.
The ending of their country.
The ending of the Jews as a united people....


Lets remember the context...
Jesus was at the temple, his men point out the huge stones and the great size of the buildings...and how impressive they were, and how they gave the feeling of grandeur.

And into this Jesus tells them that its all going to go....nothing will remain....
It will all fall down...and be swept aside and forgotten.
And....that these same people listening to him right then and there would live to see this happen.

and they did....

[cheachea]

alanmolstad are you a preterist ?

Do you believe God will pour out His wrath on His own Church ?

He made a way of escape for Noah with the Ark and also made a way of escape for Lot and his daughters.

[MacG]

Originally Posted by cheachea

alanmolstad are you a preterist ?

Do you believe God will pour out His wrath on His own Church ?

He made a way of escape for Noah with the Ark and also made a way of escape for Lot and his daughters.

The way of escape was in the midst of the judgement much like the angel of death taking all of the young males where the blood of the lamb was not on the door post. The chosen were in the midst of the judgement not entirely removed from it like the rapture is usually presented but shielded from it unless you happen to look over your shoulder while it's happening...

Remember though the enemies wrath is not necessarily restrained from believers. I believe the case can be made for concurrent tribulations if you will. God's judgement of the deniers and the Devil's persecution of the church.

Could be wrong,

MacG

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by cheachea

alanmolstad are you a preterist ?

Do you believe God will pour out His wrath on His own Church ?

He made a way of escape for Noah with the Ark and also made a way of escape for Lot and his daughters.

The verse i pointed out proves that we will not be taken out of the world....and I trust that God knows who is on His side and who is not....

Thus we should worry about the devil, but we dont have to worry about our God...for if we actually had to start to worry about our God, we serve the wrong God.

What I believe the bible teaches for the end times, is that the church will be right here, on the earth, busy with bringing the Good News to people right up to the last moment of this age....

The church does not need to turn tail and run....

[cheachea]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

The verse i pointed out proves that we will not be taken out of the world....and I trust that God knows who is on His side and who is not....

Thus we should worry about the devil, but we dont have to worry about our God...for if we actually had to start to worry about our God, we serve the wrong God.

What I believe the bible teaches for the end times, is that the church will be right here, on the earth, busy with bringing the Good News to people right up to the last moment of this age....

The church does not need to turn tail and run....

Thanks for the response. It's interesting to study this topic. I believe in the Rapture of The Church, but I understand people's reasons for not believing it also. It's kind of one of those secondary issues for me, kind of like the whole Calvinism/Arminianism thing .

[alanmolstad]

I agree....it is a 2nd level issue

[reality10]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

when Jesus talked about his return, he also was talking about the fall of the temple.....and his answer tends to flip back and forth.

Any time someone says regarding Christ that His words "tend to flip back and forth".....a HUGE RED FLAG goes up in my head. God's word is never changing and he is the "same yesterday, today and forever".

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by reality10

Any time someone says regarding Christ that His words "tend to flip back and forth".....a HUGE RED FLAG goes up in my head. God's word is never changing and he is the "same yesterday, today and forever".

I think you are in error on that.

What Im talking about is that Jesus was asked a bunch of questions,,,,not just one.
And in his answer Jesus gives us the answers to the several questions he was asked.

One part of his answer was aimed at one question he was asked....but another part of the answer Jesus gave was aimed at other questions he was asked.

The error is to mix one of his answers to the wrong question.

This is why you have to read what Jesus said in the carefull context of the several questions he was asked...



When you do this, what you learn is that Jesus was talking about two different times in Earth's future.
One time was when the temple would be ripped down by the Romans...
This is the event that would happen within their generation.
The people hearing Jesus say this would live to see it happen.

The other part of the answer Jesus gave was dealing with the return of Christ and the end of this age.
Even Jesus did not know when this would happen.

[disicaqe]

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