John 1:1 real problems in there for Trinitarians

[Tom Boots]

I ask this question to Trinitarians is God a Trinity or not?
Is God able to be seen or not?
Is God a man?
Is God flesh and bones?
Is God able to sit face to face with himself as another being?
Where was the Holy Spirit God in all this about John 1:1?

So God is something never called or defined as such as they do as three persons or a Trinity
Nor is God seen as a man.

Or able to sit face to face with another Called God, since only the Father is the true God.

ThatGod is not flesh and bones.

And no Another Spirit is with him

[MacG]

MacG interpolation type thingy Jn1:1ff: "In the beginning was the Me. The Me was with the Other, and the Me was the Other...the Me was in the beginning with the Other...The Me became flesh and dwelt among you and you saw the Me's glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Other, full of grace and truth".

Phil 2 in part"...do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this at***ude in yourselves which was also in the Me, who, although the Me existed in the form of the Other, did not regard equality with the Other a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, ..."

The real word in NASB: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God...And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Phil 2 in part "...do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this at***ude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, ..."

[Tom Boots]

Who or what is God in Jn 1:1

[MacG]

Originally Posted by Tom Boots

Who or what is God in Jn 1:1

With:
a —used as a function word to indicate combination, accompaniment, presence, or addition <heat milk with honey> <went there with her> <his money, with his wife's, comes to a million>

God AND the Word who became flesh.

[Tom Boots]

So you believe in God and another God who became flesh, which is two gods.
Do you hold a third god with them yeah or nay?
Seems like I am pulling teeth to get a straight answer, you Socinian?, Trinitarian, Binatarian?

[Tom Boots]

Have you taken a look that pros ton theon means "in things pertaining to God"?
That three other times it us used in scriptures it is translated as such.
Heb. 2:17, 5:1, Rom. 15:17.

[MacG]

Originally Posted by Tom Boots

So you believe in God and another God who became flesh, which is two gods.
Do you hold a third god with them yeah or nay?
Seems like I am pulling teeth to get a straight answer, you Socinian?, Trinitarian, Binatarian?

I was commenting what the verse says. Two that are with each other. Not something along the lines of there only being Jesus:

"In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with Jesus, and Jesus was Jesus. Jesus was in the beginning with Jesus."

Unless you are pulling your own teeth, please keep your pliers on the exam tray

[MacG]

u a greek scholar?

[Tom Boots]

Smart mouth huh? That what you are ? and yes I know what Greek says, Pros ton theon "in things pertaining to God" that what one needs in John 1:1 is para ton theon for it to be "with".
Take a look at the three other places that pros ton theon is found in Heb. 2:17,5:1,Rom. 15:17, pros ton theon is translated as such, but a Trinitarian trying to get one god with another god would like you to believe in god with God.
The Word was not another or a separate god, there is only One God.

I ask if you hold is this the Trinity or not?

If. The Trinity and you hold the Trinity as God, then you must render it as...
IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD AND THE WORD WAS WITH THE TRINITY AND THE WORD WAS THE TRINITY.
Or you can insert Father in for Trinity if You hold GOd in there was Father!
I hold Jesus is to be God in the p***age, but that Word is still to written as Word , for it is the Logos...idea, thought, expression of him.

God is not two or three members, he is one person Gal. 3:20 Greek Grammar of heis theos -one God a masculine one a sole numerical one as one person.
SeeAmplified version even stating it correctly.

My pliers can easily pull your teeth.

[cheachea]

Tom Boots are you a Mormon, Jehovah's Witness or a Oneness Pentecostal ? What Cult are you apart of ?


The Trinity is an established Christian Doctrine and Nothing you say is going to change that. Ask God The Holy Spirit to Lead you into all truth and He will.


Gen 1:26- and "God" said, let "US" make man in "OUR" image and in "OUR" likeness.

[MacG]

Originally Posted by Tom Boots

My pliers can easily pull your teeth.

Be nice, pride goes before a fall.

Are you a Greek scholar?

[Tom Boots]

Well it depends on what you mean by scholar, I know Greek, have studied Koine Greek of the Bible and know what I speak of when I do.
Maybe more a student, but know that "para ton theon" is not in John 1:1 is.
Now do you answer thread posts or just post meaningless gibberish.
I see you still have not tried.
Just wondering if you are going to get into a conversation and discuss the Trinity errors and Roman Catholic nonsense that, that religion invented, from it's originator and father of such, TERTULLIAN.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Tom Boots

Well it depends on what you mean by scholar, I know Greek, have studied Koine Greek of the Bible and know what I speak of when I do.
Maybe more a student, but know that "para ton theon" is not in John 1:1 is.
Now do you answer thread posts or just post meaningless gibberish.
I see you still have not tried.
Just wondering if you are going to get into a conversation and discuss the Trinity errors and Roman Catholic nonsense that, that religion invented, from it's originator and father of such, TERTULLIAN.

As the man said, "It's all Greek to me." Man I am glad I like playing golf, if I could only be in three golf course at the same time, Now that is a true Trinity, but a foursome is better.
Well anyways, I don't know what John 1;1 has to do with the Trinity, but heck keep studing the Greek language....

[Tom Boots]

I am part of the only true religion, the Chruch of Jesus Christ, a Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal Christian of Monarchian doctrine and Jesus name baptized, Spirit filled faith.

The Trinity is not truth, it can be established in error from it's father and philosopher Tertullian a heretic and excommunicant.

There is no Trinity, no deity was called such by Jesus, Apostles, Disciples or the saints of the 1st and 2nd centuries, there was no one teaching such till the godless man Tertullian coined the name and followers of gentile pagan ideas started to follower a three god view using Christian words and phrases.
[I take it you are one of those and cannot see the truth of Who Jesus really is].

I got the Holy Ghost and it led me away from that bogus three faced god and belief in poor little Jesus, the praying, needing help, dying and getting bailed out form the underworld by two other part god felllows.

Funny the God who gave that word to the Jews, his people never had them believe in a deity called Trinity, explained as three beings, told to worship such and yet you will tell them and us true Christians that your god is made up of three seperate persons who sit face to face.

Gen. 1:26 is answered by 1:27 and until you read the next p***age, you will never understand what you thinks supports your view from the former.

GOD SPOKE IN A PLURAL OF MAJESTY AND OR PLURAL OF DELIBERATION.
That means he spoke outwardly to the heavenly host, the Angels who were present when he did create all things at the beginning or prior to time or He spoke inwardly, to himself as men do and council with themselves as God does Eph. 1:11.
Jews held those ideas, Jews didn't try and find three gods and follow the gentile minds as you are doing with it's polytheistic godhead.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:...
God did make man and all mankind after his image [the express image of God, is Jesus Christ his only begotten Son Heb.1:3}
most angels also made in such and seen as men.
make does not mean angels created, but helped in the making of man and mankind as we see today, by being at times ministering spirit unto us and leading as God directed them.
...vs 27 "So God (not gods or angels) created man in his own image, in the image of God created him; male and female created he them."
God created alone, he has all power alone and what he delagates out is his own choosing and will.
God councelled with himself and created man and all this world for such mankind.
God is one person and the Bible NEVER EVER SAYS GOD IS THREE PERSONS.
God is a Holy One, not a unholy three!
GOD is the LORD!, there is only one LORD, not many as Trinitarians have.


God did not make man in a three person image as you try to say, but in one person image, Jesus Christ, his Son a perfect sinless man, a man of flesh and bones, a real physical body or tabernacle of God, not God himself, but the Son of such God.
Look in a mirror, do you see one man before you a man of body , soul and Spirit given by God/ or do you see three men standing in that mirror?

PLEASE ANSWER, before you go running with the ball you like to carry, are you one person or three persons?
ANSWER, don't him haw around and give me a run around.
ONE OR THREE?

God according to scripture is ONE PERSON!, not three persons!!
*** 13:8 KJV says so.
Gal. 3:20 Amplified version says so.
and scripture is clear , there is only one God the Father and not two other gods with him called Son and Holy Ghost.
GOD IS SPIRIT, let that sink in, GOD IS SPIRIT, not Spirits, not a man and a bird, but God is Spirit and Invisible, not visible as you people try to make, by making his only begotten Son, himself.

ONE GOD, not a pack of them running wild in the streets and flying about and saying the third person is a bird or that one of the three is what God says he is not, A MAN.

[Tom Boots]

I am playing in a Golf outing today, 4 man scramble, I came in third 5 years ago in this outing and two years ago one closest to the pin at 170 yds (2 feet away).
Last 5 years I keep playing better and better (shoot in mid 80's), broke 80 last year for first time, had two 80's as well on even harder courses and playing more, you can only improve by playing and practicing (which I hate really just hitting ***** at range).
Getting Senior rates and hitting off Senior tees now, hit them straight and last year had 2 fist place finishes and a 3rd and one a bunch of stuff in these outings.

NOW I do study Greek and the Bible in English my language and reject a trinity, for the Bible says nary a thing about it or even hints.

Jesus is all, He is LORD GOD ALMIGHTY.

[RealFakeHair]

I am part of the only true religion, the Chruch of Jesus Christ, a Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal Christian of Monarchian doctrine and Jesus name baptized, Spirit filled faith. Sign, Tom Boots. Oh, really? I never heard that before.
My first question is, are you 14 years old?
I remember when I was 14 years old, I thought I knew everything, but later on I found out one thing, I didn't know everything.
I am glad you are spirit filled. I got up to about 2% and, well I backslide to about 1/2 of 1 %, and been stuck there every since.
After about 40 years I did gain some wisdom, and common sense, and believe me that counts for the 1 and 1/2 % lost.
Now as for the Holy Spirit, here is where I trad lightly, you know the one sin not forgiven. I would hate to say I was lead by the Holy Spirit and later on find out it was some kind of other spirit that had a hold on me. This is where wisdom come into play.
God is Spirit. Jesus is the First and the last, and God is the First and the Last.
I don't know where oneness come from, but I do know one is the loneliness number I've ever knew. I just made that up, lol.
Now as far as him hawing, hey what else is there to do on the internet?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Tom Boots

I am playing in a Golf outing today, 4 man scramble, I came in third 5 years ago in this outing and two years ago one closest to the pin at 170 yds (2 feet away).
Last 5 years I keep playing better and better (shoot in mid 80's), broke 80 last year for first time, had two 80's as well on even harder courses and playing more, you can only improve by playing and practicing (which I hate really just hitting ***** at range).
Getting Senior rates and hitting off Senior tees now, hit them straight and last year had 2 fist place finishes and a 3rd and one a bunch of stuff in these outings.

NOW I do study Greek and the Bible in English my language and reject a trinity, for the Bible says nary a thing about it or even hints.

Jesus is all, He is LORD GOD ALMIGHTY.

See we have something in common, I hope you make a hole in one and win the car, if not the sleeve of golf ***** aint bad.

[cheachea]

Tom Boots read this verse 1John 5:7 -


For there are "Three" that bear witness in heaven: "the Father?, "the Word", and "the Holy Spirit"; and These Three Are "ONE".

[cheachea]

Originally Posted by Tom Boots

God did not make man in a three person image as you try to say,

That's the thing though, Your Spirit, Soul and Body are all separate and distinct yet they are all You at the end of the day. When your spirit wants to do something but your flesh wants to do something else it shows you that there are separate natures with in man himself but are still the one man. The Father is God. The Lord Jesus Christ is God and The Holy Spirit is God and They ARE One.

[Tom Boots]

So you will not answer any posts I post in this thread, not the original one, not the specific question and points to you.
You going to say that you are three persons?
That saying you are BODY-SOUL AND SPIRIT MAKES YOU THREE PERSONS??
C'mon that is absurd.
Jesus is he three persons?does that mean you actually have 9 persons in the godhead!?
That sounds like you are some Mormon polytheist.

Jesus is the only true God and FATHER! John 17:1-3.

The Holy Spirit is not a different Spirit than God's own Spirit and in action.
The Spirit is the HOLY SPIRIT, not a third member of a triad.

I don't personally think any of you have a clue what person or persons mean, you make yourself three persons, not one person with three distinctions of you and not a person that as A.T.ROBERTSON says about John 1:1 that you can be face to face with your self!
Oh my is that funny.

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD AND HE IS THE FATHER AND THE FATHER OF THE SON, the Son is not God, was not called God save by a errant translation choice by men trying to provide some evidence of a Trinity in Heb. 1:8, THOUGH REFUTED BY THE HEBREW IT COMES FROM IN PSALMS, the Greek meaning, the 4 oldest English versions and the evidence in Hebrews 1:, which is speaking of a man and not God as Christ Jesus.

[Tom Boots]

You apparently don't know that 1 JN 5:17 IS CONSIDERED THEE MOST SPURIOUS TEXT IN ANY BIBLE!
WHY?
Do you know why?
I do!
It is because that verse is not written in any Greek text till the 13th century!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is not found, save in the Codex Montforti.
I bet you didn't know that Erasmus, the author of the TEXTUS RECEPTUS in his first two editions of his writing did not have it in the text!
He was forced by the CATHOLIC mother religion to insert it, OR ELSE.
He told them they had to come up with it in Greek, they obliged and found one in DUBLIN IRELAND of all places, WELL THAT IS MIGHTY STRANGE A DOCUMENT FROM THE 1200'S {aka 13th century} in IRELAND and it's arena of Catholic stronghold found one after he asked for one and not from any earlier century or somewhere even remotely close to Israel, neighboring countries, Italy, Greece, Middle East.
AND TO BE CENTURIES REMOVED AND NO OTHER MSS TO SUPPORT IT.
Why most modern versions reject that verse as Authentic and include it or put it in parentheses.

Your people had to mislead and write it in to prop up a evil triad of three gods masquerading as One True God.

The verse is rejected, it is false and you were duped by a horrific system of hate and THREE gods.

See Adam Clarke's commentary on the verse, it has not eve been refuted and that is from the early 19th century.

[Tom Boots]

Hey realfakehair, My team shot 70 two under and I hit a 40 foot putt to take longest putt in the outing and got a 15 ball pack of Pinnacle Gold Yellow optic *****, and did so as the leadoff first putting guy and not getting a read from others.
6433 yds par 72 course.

[Tom Boots]

no, not 14 at all.
God is complete by himself, it was his decision to make anything, in heaven or a earth with mankind and it's creation.

Oneness means a couple of things, first off we as followers called such is based on our view that God is one and not a plurality of beings, that we are believers then in ONE TRUE GOD, not a threesome,
and
regarding God, that he is one and thus oneness is the view of God and not a triad threeness or Trinity view.

Oneness were called by many names from past ages, CHRISTIANS, Monarchians, Modalists, Cathari, Jesus only, Oneness have been called many times Apostolics and also by leaders names during times past and regions they were from.

BLASPHEMY OF THE HOLY GHOST IS STATING THE ACTIONS OF GOD IS ATTRIBUTED TO THE DEVIL.
It is not saying I believe God lead me to do or say something.

I believe without a doubt I am led by the Holy Spirit, I know I was filled with the Baptism with the Holy Ghost as the scriptures show and have varying Gifts of the Spirit active in my life and at different times, different ones.

If you don't know who Oneness are and what we teach, you may investigate and find we are the true religion and saints of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[MacG]

Originally Posted by Tom Boots

I am playing in a Golf outing today, 4 man scramble, I came in third 5 years ago in this outing and two years ago one closest to the pin at 170 yds (2 feet away).
Last 5 years I keep playing better and better (shoot in mid 80's), broke 80 last year for first time, had two 80's as well on even harder courses and playing more, you can only improve by playing and practicing (which I hate really just hitting ***** at range).
Getting Senior rates and hitting off Senior tees now, hit them straight and last year had 2 fist place finishes and a 3rd and one a bunch of stuff in these outings.

NOW I do study Greek and the Bible in English my language and reject a trinity, for the Bible says nary a thing about it or even hints.

Jesus is all, He is LORD GOD ALMIGHTY.

I play in the mid 70's, any hotter and I don't go out.

[MacG]

Originally Posted by Tom Boots

Well it depends on what you mean by scholar, I know Greek, have studied Koine Greek of the Bible and know what I speak of when I do.
Maybe more a student, but know that "para ton theon" is not in John 1:1 is.
Now do you answer thread posts or just post meaningless gibberish.
I see you still have not tried.
Just wondering if you are going to get into a conversation and discuss the Trinity errors and Roman Catholic nonsense that, that religion invented, from it's originator and father of such, TERTULLIAN.

Tom thanks for your reply. Since you seem to be a mid level belt in Greek and I have not even bought a Ghi I need to defer to others in regards to you ***ertion. Can you explain why this guy says otherwise? http://baptistgadfly.blogspot.com/20...ton-theon.html Thanks.