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Thread: A discussion on Walter Martin on John Ankerberg show 1985

  1. #1
    Tom Boots

    Default A discussion on Walter Martin on John Ankerberg show 1985

    In 1985 Walter Martin and E. Calvin Beisner were picked by John Ankerberg to be on his show to ambush two Oneness Ministers Nathaniel Urshan who was General Supt. of the Upci and Robert Sabin of St. Paul, MN.
    The Oneness Ministers did not know a "Debate"was to take place, but rather a discussion of what Oneness held, they soon found out otherwise.
    The Oneness MInisters according to Sabin were treated well upon their arrival, neither had seen the program and or knew about the format of John's show and how he was going to ambush them.
    They were treated kindly and thinking John was going to give them a opportunity to discuss what we held, it became a unfair treatment of the Oneness.

    First on how formate was, it was not a debate, no fair allotment of time and equal treatment regarding ask questions.
    Trinitarians were given twice the amount of time in responding and constantly interrupted the Oneness ministers.
    All questions were directed at Oneness to answer in a defensive way and nothing directed to Trinitarians on any weak text and problems for them.
    Ankerberg himself supposedly aModerator actually became a combatant and joined right in.
    John also got rather huffy about it being his program and costing him money, a sign of someone with a chip on his shoulder and not treating people as the guests they were intended to be.
    John also had a selection of books to run to, while the aloneness had no idea a debate ( even informal one)was to take place, so they had a bible each and Sabin had a pad and some notes.
    Walter and Calvin got caught In a BIG LIE, when Walter stated that he and Calvin did not believe in a eternal son, yet Beisner did and even wrote so in his book on The Trinity.
    Beisner appealed to a spurious work, the Epistle of Barnabas when he could not find his doctrine in Scripture.
    Martin made up a false definition regarding urparkon and said it meant eternally existing, thought does not.
    The Trinitarains constantly interrupted and this is seen on tape and especially in printed transcript with Oneness speaking and then having .... After a couple of words.
    I have seen this on radio programs many times when Oneness call in or they are on the program being interviewed or ask questions.
    Robert Sabin stated thatched counted the Trinitarians had 66% of allotted time to speak and lines of transcript to show a bias, giving appearance that they one.
    Walter when ask to debate Sabin fairly never did do so in four years after the show n a fair face to face meeting moderated and timed.
    Bob Bowman did do. So twice once in St. Paul and then in San Diego, in the first one, he did fair and then in the second struggled and even got hammered and turned to Sabin and told him "nice preaching".

    In conclusion, I would be interested in talking about a point from the debate that you feel we were weak or needs more clarifying, as well as me asking you some questions.
    Last edited by Tom Boots; 06-17-2013 at 04:18 PM.

  2. #2
    Tom Boots


    In the discussion on the show Walter ask Urshan if he and Beisner were Christians and brothers, now Urshan didn't want to seem to be condemning, but he should have answered as I would have, yes and you are going to split hell wide open, as you think me and Robrt Sabin are.
    For it was Trinitarians calling Urshan and Sabin and the UPCI such and why they had them on the program.
    Either one of us are right or both wrong, of which I don't believe, as I see only Jesu as God and Father if he is God at all.

  3. #3


    Ambush? It seems Mr Urshan actively pursued a meeting but whatever.

    For the other side of the coin here is Walter Martin's recollection of it for any interested parties start @ 2:46 or so
    Last edited by MacG; 07-01-2013 at 05:01 PM.

  4. #4
    Tom Boots


    Noticed how they interuipted Sabin so he couldn't speak.
    That went on the whole program.
    You can see it in the transcripts plainly where he starts to make a comment and this shows up " and the word of God...." over and over a again.
    Other side of what coin, I gave you several points showing what happened on the show and how the Oneness were treated and did you know that according to Sabin, they did not know of a debate, they thought they were coming on to discuss what Oneness held and taught and how we live.
    Sabin did though get Rob Bowman after many unsuccesful attempts to get Walter in a fair and fomatted and moderated debate.
    Last edited by Tom Boots; 07-02-2013 at 12:27 PM.

  5. #5


    A discussion on Walter Martin on John Ankerberg show 1985
    1985, why I was just a pup. John does still have nice hair though, I wonder where Walter got his hair from?

  6. #6
    Tom Boots


    I understand, but it is a important discussion, one which Trinitarians think supports their point, but what was said and done shows otherwise.
    If I am given twice the amount of time to make my points than someone else, then it will appear I am carrying the day.
    If I make statements that are later found to be bogus regarding Greek or a historical point, then at the time I may look like a winner, only to be found in error for these, then it makes little and is untrue, Martin was in error on points and Beisner, simply was incapable of making any Biblical point.

    I bought the audio, video and transcripts from Ankerberg ministry.
    I will tell you that it was not a debate and definitely not a fair debate.

  7. #7
    Tom Boots


    So if I say on a program me and my person on my side do not believe The Son is eternal , when in fact he does , even though I don't, would that be a lie, especially when he says nothing to make it seem we are in disagreement, when he and I know he holds a different view and writes a book about it?

  8. #8


    very good points.

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018


    Thank you for sharing this post

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