This Banned Guy had no responses here? Tom Boots

[nothead]

Although rantful, this is a common Oneness Pentecostal rant.

So no one refutes stances against the Status Quo? I knew Martin's Kingdom of the Cults was hokey like 20 years ago.

Trinitarianism is cult. In the DEROGATORY SENSE.

You guys ain't got a leg to stand on. Not in Bible is the first problem you face. All proof texts are indirect, vague and smudgy and veiled and cloudy and well, um just plain not even there. Not to mention not in the Bible?

Did I repeat myself? Maybe because it hasn't sunk in yet. HOW DARE anyone tell anyone else what is CULT if they are espousing ADD-ON APPS??

[nothead]

What is obvious: Trinity did not become a CONCEPT until the fourth century for some, and the fifth century for many.

What is obvious: Trinity was NOT a concept taught by our Lord. What WAS his name, em, I think it was Jesus.

What is obvious: Therefore no man HAS THE RIGHT to define CULT as opposing Trinitarianism.

So then are we at Christian History 101 yet? No takers? No defenders of the faith, not even the progeny of Mr. Martin himself? No defenders of the DAUGHTERS of Mr. Walter Martin? 'Cmon knights, round about, the round table....

Get yer armor on. This here is WAR. FIGHT for what is noble, honorable and TRUE. Do it.

[nothead]

Tell me how Jesus is GOD in the first 3 historical Creeds of the Christian Church...

Ireneus Rule of Faith 3rd Century

. . . this faith: in one God, the Father Almighty, who made the heaven and the earth and the seas and all the things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who was made flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who made known through the prophets the plan of salvation, and the coming, and the birth from a virgin, and the p***ion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the bodily ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and his future appearing from heaven in the glory of the Father to sum up all things and to raise anew all flesh of the whole human race . . .


************************************************** ************************************************** ************

Third Century Old Roman Symbol


I believe in God the Father almighty;
and in Christ Jesus His only Son, our Lord,
Who was born from the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary,
Who under Pontius Pilate was crucified and buried,

on the third day rose again from the dead,
ascended to heaven,
sits at the right hand of the Father,
whence He will come to judge the living and the dead;

and in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Church,
the remission of sins,
the resurrection of the flesh
(the life everlasting).[7]

************************************************** ************************************************** ***************


Fourth Century Apostolic's Creed
1. I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
2. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
3. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.
4. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
5. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again.
6. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
7. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
8. I believe in the Holy Spirit,
9. the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints,
10. the forgiveness of sins,
11. the resurrection of the body,
12. and life everlasting.
Amen.

************************************************** ************************************************** ***********************

Clement's writings expresses his understanding of who was considered to be GOD, CIRCA 96 A.D. Or, to put it another way, what was the doctrine of his day, as relates to a trinity?

PP-59. Let all the Gentiles know that YOU ARE GOD ALONE, [ho theos monos]

AND JESUS CHRIST IS YOUR SON,

and we are your people and the sheep of your pasture.

(Apostolic Fathers P.36-37/82-83)

[disciple]

Hi nothead,

Forgive me if I'm a little slow but are you saying that Jesus is not God?

[nothead]

Originally Posted by disciple

Hi nothead,

Forgive me if I'm a little slow but are you saying that Jesus is not God?

Nobody is slow like nothead, but he finally understood, having INVESTIGATED two years ago. YES.

Hint: without investigating the status quo is ***umed. However in plain language the Bible NEVER SAYS Jesus is God. And no red letter saying says it either...the question is then why...and the answer will surprise you, God (Jesus) WASN'T acting coy or secretive at all.

There is but One True God. The numerical word 'one' leaves out any other. Person, place or thing, which is ANY OTHER said 8 times in Isa 45 in case you missed the first seven. See, the Great Command is the First Command according to Jesus in Mk 12. And this command has two parts, which the CULT of CHRISTIANITY has denigrated completely from both ends.

Blasphemy? Nein, how can what ISN'T said be blasphemy and the denigration of "God is One" be right? See, the Judeo-Christian religion has a primal command upon which all Law and the prophets hang...and THIS command makes "God is Jesus" false from the git-go.

Sorry, I am going off the OP, but if Jesus is NOT God, then Trinity cannot be either. The Oneness Pentecostal camp has SOMETHING right.

[disciple]

Originally Posted by nothead

Nobody is slow like nothead, but he finally understood, having INVESTIGATED two years ago. YES.

Hint: without investigating the status quo is ***umed. However in plain language the Bible NEVER SAYS Jesus is God. And no red letter saying says it either...the question is then why...and the answer will surprise you, God (Jesus) WASN'T acting coy or secretive at all.

There is but One True God. The numerical word 'one' leaves out any other. Person, place or thing, which is ANY OTHER said 8 times in Isa 45 in case you missed the first seven. See, the Great Command is the First Command according to Jesus in Mk 12. And this command has two parts, which the CULT of CHRISTIANITY has denigrated completely from both ends.

Blasphemy? Nein, how can what ISN'T said be blasphemy and the denigration of "God is One" be right? See, the Judeo-Christian religion has a primal command upon which all Law and the prophets hang...and THIS command makes "God is Jesus" false from the git-go.

Sorry, I am going off the OP, but if Jesus is NOT God, then Trinity cannot be either. The Oneness Pentecostal camp has SOMETHING right.

Hi NH,

How then would you comment on Hebrews chap 1:8-10. The writer of Hebrews quoting from Psalms.

8 "But to the Son He says:
Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom".


9 "You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

10 And:
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands".

[nothead]

Originally Posted by disciple

Hi NH,

How then would you comment on Hebrews chap 1:8-10. The writer of Hebrews quoting from Psalms.

8 "But to the Son He says:
Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom".


9 "You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

10 And:
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands".

One of the 7 or 8 most common JisG proof texts...but several problems arise right off the bat, since certain things don't add up...

1) first addressed to a Davidic king, so "O God" cannot be literal, WHATEVER this means. You are reduced to saying the verse is true in the Messianic sense but not true in the near and immediate sense the author intended.
2) v. 9 is clear and plain juxtaposition between God and Jesus...why say GOD annointed him, when He is God, self-annointed? Why say MORE THAN COMPANIONS when he is God? We don't know God is over men in general, and you and me specifically?
3) Also why the contrast between angels and God (Jesus)? If he is God, then he is obviously over angels...that don't make sense either.
4) Why say RIGHT HAND OF GOD in v.13 if He Jesus is ON the Throne? RIGHT HAND of the throne in every instance, culturally, historically, even in the Bible means SUBORDINATE POSITION to God, rather the one ON the throne.

You are ***uming v. 10 is referring to Jesus. NO not at all, guess who.

[nothead]

oo. Where you go disciple? To work?

Hay I got work to do too. Come around again some time and check on ya. Don't know when...unless God calls me home before...cross into the Promised Land.

In that case, goodbye and good day. Or if a mod deletes me. Certain death for most posters.

[disciple]

Originally Posted by nothead

One of the 7 or 8 most common JisG proof texts...but several problems arise right off the bat, since certain things don't add up...

1) first addressed to a Davidic king, so "O God" cannot be literal, WHATEVER this means. You are reduced to saying the verse is true in the Messianic sense but not true in the near and immediate sense the author intended.
2) v. 9 is clear and plain juxtaposition between God and Jesus...why say GOD annointed him, when He is God, self-annointed? Why say MORE THAN COMPANIONS when he is God? We don't know God is over men in general, and you and me specifically?
3) Also why the contrast between angels and God (Jesus)? If he is God, then he is obviously over angels...that don't make sense either.
4) Why say RIGHT HAND OF GOD in v.13 if He Jesus is ON the Throne? RIGHT HAND of the throne in every instance, culturally, historically, even in the Bible means SUBORDINATE POSITION to God, rather the one ON the throne.

You are ***uming v. 10 is referring to Jesus. NO not at all, guess who.

Hey NH,

Verse 8 specifies that the Son is being addressed. Jesus mentions this in Mat. 22:41-45

[nothead]

Originally Posted by disciple

Hey NH,

Verse 8 specifies that the Son is being addressed. Jesus mentions this in Mat. 22:41-45

didn't say v. 8 not addressed to the Son. SAYING v. 10 switches addressed referent. Funny thing about language and the Bible. NT has two main characters, the Father who is God and the Son who is below Him and above the angels...

...the referent addressed then frequently changes.

[nothead]

Originally Posted by disciple

Hey NH,

Verse 8 specifies that the Son is being addressed. Jesus mentions this in Mat. 22:41-45

Mt 22

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.

43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

??, you are quoting an obviously UNITARIAN verse to make what case?

The Lord (YHWH) said to my Lord (Jesus)....two Lords mentioned here.

So then you are a proponent of LORD Theology (my canned term) where LORD means GOD?? My view is exactly opposed. LORD can mean many things and Strongs Lexicon will support me. Any oddball trin or JisG terp here is gonna fall flat on it's face, not necessarily the TERP rather TERPER (can I say this even half-heartedly) and so then...WHY is the terp(er) falling flat on his face, em buhhhhhh......

....oh yeah since two Lords do not normally a one God make. Even in the old days, since they could ADD, goh.

('Goh' means GO to Truth, also my owned canned term). Goh hither fair damsel and the force I mean Lord be with you.

[disciple]

Originally Posted by nothead

didn't say v. 8 not addressed to the Son. SAYING v. 10 switches addressed referent. Funny thing about language and the Bible. NT has two main characters, the Father who is God and the Son who is below Him and above the angels...

...the referent addressed then frequently changes.

Hello not,

I would like to hear your explanation for Isaiah 9:6;

"For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace".

[nothead]

Originally Posted by disciple

Hello not,

I would like to hear your explanation for Isaiah 9:6;

"For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace".

The key term is 'El Gibbor' which is variously translated, most often I believe as 'mighty warrior' in the OT.

Specific verses, ahem gosh now I gotta do some homework. Don't have a pasty here...

http://www.21stcr.org/multimedia/art...Isaiah9-6.html

The Hebrew word gibbor occurs over 150 times in the MT in either its singular or plural form. In over half of these instances the New American Standard Bible renders it “mighty” or “mighty man” or “men.” In thirty-eight of them it is translated “warrior(s).” This evidence shows that el gibbor can be treated as an adjective or a substantive (noun) that designates men. Context and ***ociated words are the determining factors.
******************************************

In turn the word 'EL' is not THE like in Spanish rather God, POWER, STRONG or MIGHTY.

Kind of conspiracy on the part of the 'orthodox' wouldn't you say?

[reinart]

First, your rant was way after it appears that Tom was banned.
Second you tell no one what religious group cult sect whatever you are from, just like what is common in cultists to hide what they are.
Third Jesus was to be called God, was God and himself said he was God and in the N.T. and not using Hebrew and your replies to such and falsely may I say ( but no matter) in Greek, he said he was Theos=God and there is no caveat to modify God being more than one, the masculine heis or one means God is a sole numerical one, not a junior as you would have , God is one person, one personality, as one man.
Isa. 9:6, John 20:28, Rev. 21:6-7, Gal. 3:20.

[reinart]

It wasn't speaking of mighty warrior here, he is Mighty God.

[reinart]

nothead, Oneness Pentecostals do hold Jesus as God, as Spirit, not the flesh man the Son of God, the Christ of God.
GOD IS A SPIRIT. John 4:24
Jesus is God and says he is in Rev. 21:6-7
He is called God by others like in John 20:28.
There is one God, One doesn't mean three, so we reject the Trinity of persons doctrine, but hold two natures complete and distinct from one another that Jesus possesses.
SPIRIT AND HUMAN.

[alanmolstad]

Jesus is God Almighty....