Is Election the Only Means of Salvation?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

But you want it both ways when it is convenient.

Like I said....its a dilemma...thats what the term means!....

Both sides are in error, and are dead wrong.
and have some truth to them at the same time...

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

You are not on the same level as the creator of all that is created.

Yes, thats why my salvation had to be predetermined, as to not allow me to screw up...LOL

[alanmolstad]

this is all gone over in detail on the recording...did you listen to it at all?



I love how I will say something like, "God predetermined my salvation"...and the anti-Calvinist will react and try to show me a ton over verses that "prove" that God only reacts to what he sees us choose...


on the other hand, if I tell a Calvinist that "I have free will and i also decided if I wanted to believe or not" then they will have a whole list of bible verses that "prove" God is alone sovereign....



Both sides are right up to a point..
and dead wrong too

[Saxon]

So your life is a programmed happening and you spend your life mindlessly executing code and following instructions that God has programmed you with.

[Saxon]

I have been listening to Walter Martin since the early 70's and I can say that I did listen to him before you posted it and I did listen to the pot you made.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

So your life is a programmed happening and you spend your life mindlessly executing code and following instructions that God has programmed you with.

LOL......

its like ...."cl***ic"

Tell a Calvinist that I have free Will and they have a cow, and accuse me of wanting to be God.
Tell an Anti-Calvinist that God is Sovereign and they call me a robot.



some people's kids.....

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

So your life is a programmed happening and you spend your life mindlessly executing code and following instructions that God has programmed you with.

The answer I teach is found in my story of the p***enger on a great ship.

We always have freedom, yet our freedom never for a moment actually trumps the authority of the Skipper of the ship to direct our lives where he and he alone wants it to go.

[alanmolstad]

So when the Skipper gives a command for the ship to go when He wants it to go, he is not worried about what direction we walk on the ship at the time...
Its all already taken into account.

[Saxon]

Then explain yourself so one doesn't reach the robot conclusion. You have a short memory, I also believe that God is Sovereign. Try to remember what you read and try to comprehend it.

[alanmolstad]

its the very same in out lives.

before the world began, before the first sun burned in the sky,,,,I was predetermined to be with the Lord forever in glory.
me....personally....

Not just "guys like me......not just believersin general...not just the lucky few who do the right thing in the end...NO!



me personally...

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

You have a short memory, .....

Try to remember what you read and try to comprehend it.

I think we are done here now....

i will post a few more recordings to answer any other questions any might have....

[Saxon]

So you do believe that God has predestined those that believe to be believers.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

So you do believe that God has predestined those that believe to be believers.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...A5DD2FF391692B


the answer is found at 3:40 to 4:44

[Saxon]

Why are you so reluctant to state your own belief? Yes or no will clearly answer the question.

[alanmolstad]

You can read what the answer is.

You just don't seem to like this answer

[Saxon]

I do not wish to jump to conclusions, so yes or no.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

I do not wish to jump to conclusions, so yes or no.

see post number #78

Or simply refer to the recording by Martin

[Saxon]

What is so hard about yes or no??

[alanmolstad]

what is so hard about the fact that I have answered that question enough times to now tell you that 'we have covered that"....and "move on"?

We have already covered that.

Move on...

For as Walter martin points out, there is no way to reconcile the free will of man to God's sovereignty...and yet that is what we see in the bible...

Man does have free will.
God is alone sovereign....


see the answer is found at 3:40 to 4:44 of the recording

[Saxon]

You have not given me a simple answer that I can clearly understand. You tell me stories, refer me to Walter Martin, but never directly answer the question. A simple yes or no will clear it up for me as far as understanding your position. How about it, I am an old man.

[alanmolstad]

My answer:
When did I predetermined the hero would be a spy?

[Saxon]

Yes or no will make it clear. Are you afraid to be clear about what you believe?

[alanmolstad]

Move
.on...

[Saxon]

Why not answer the question? Yes or No!!!

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

Why not answer the question? Yes or No!!!

you can go ahead and copy/paste the same question over and over a few dozen more times if you like....

I will just hang back and allow you to get that out of your system.


When you have had enough, just let me know and I can wrap it all up with a link to the Martin recording as well as tell you go check my post number #78 for my own take on the topic.







have fun....