Calling evolution "theistic" dosen't make it true.

[MichaellS]

Excellent point! Ol’ Walter, he loved to bring up them scriptures for soundness didn’t he? Like taking up for the young and defenseless from the egregious personal attack of being deceived!

“Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.” (Psalm 82:4)

If you’re concerned about soundness, where is the response to my severe objection in link 128?

Nothing, the objection stands and you have not proven me wrong, because yours doesn’t cancel mine and mine has all the bells-&-whistles you asked for including the link to the first book of the Bible. Hello?

For all I know, others may be deceived too. Fine, let them also come and prove me wrong, because you got nothing but a foolish invitation to twist the scriptures, just as I have shown you.

If you got something from Walter Martin that shows how to justify extrapolating sinful evolution from the Bible, then bring it forward. But I know that runs the risk of being more generalizations of the type you are accustom to.

Come-on mod, is godless har***ment permitted to run this deep. Are the personal attacks on the young of no concern to this site? Look, it remains un-contested, hello? Of course you see that don’t you, unless you want a collusive continuation of this dereliction as well. Then we would know what the mystery is all about. But I trust it doesn’t come to that.

Btw, are ‘Love you’ and ‘we are praying for you’, the “personal comments” you would rather ignore as well? Yikes! What the heck is this?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Just let me know if you have a question about anything I have posted now on this topic.

I would be very happy to go over the information i have posted and any questions about a verse I have quoted.




But if you have none?...then I have a few more things i plan to get to today on this topic of theistic-evolution

I think next I might go over for our younger students, the verse in the book of *** that is talking about the very same moment in early earth history as is talked about in Genesis...

It may help bring to light how the earth got covered in water if it was created by God as a dry world as I have said?...and how it later is said to be in darkness?

[alanmolstad]

first, lets set the stage for this next issue we are going to dig into here,

The Earth was created as a dead and dry world...to confirm this lets look at - " in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

the verse that states what we are looking closer at is verse 6 above, "there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground"

so the Bible is teaching here that a "mist" came forth from the ground.
This is the same as is taught in science, for science also says that water forms on the earth via volcanic and hydro-thermal activity .

Now to learn more about this agreement between science and Genesis, lets turn in our Bibles to *** 38.

at *** 38 verse 4 we see "“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?" so clearly we are reading about the very same time in earth's history as we got in Genesis.

It goes on to say - "Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,
when I made the clouds its garment
and wrapped it in thick darkness,"


There you have it!...the "darkness" of Genesis is the very same "darkness" talked about here in ***, and we now known its all due to thick clouds!

Notice also the part that talks about how the water formed the seas,- telling us that the water "when it burst forth from the womb,"....this fits nicely with the way science tells us water was delivered to the surface of the earth via volcano.....a true "bursting forth"!

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

first, lets set the stage for this next issue we are going to dig into here,

The Earth was created as a dead and dry world...to confirm this lets look at - " in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

the verse that states what we are looking closer at is verse 6 above, "there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground"

so the Bible is teaching here that a "mist" came forth from the ground.
This is the same as is taught in science, for science also says that water forms on the earth via volcanic and hydro-thermal activity .

Now to learn more about this agreement between science and Genesis, lets turn in our Bibles to *** 38.

at *** 38 verse 4 we see "“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?" so clearly we are reading about the very same time in earth's history as we got in Genesis.

It goes on to say - "Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,
when I made the clouds its garment
and wrapped it in thick darkness,"


There you have it!...the "darkness" of Genesis is the very same "darkness" talked about here in ***, and we now known its all due to thick clouds!

Notice also the part that talks about how the water formed the seas,- telling us that the water "when it burst forth from the womb,"....this fits nicely with the way science tells us water was delivered to the surface of the earth via volcano.....a true "bursting forth"!

Wait a minute, the thread is about the verifiability of evolution which has been destroyed in a Christian context and fearfully avoided. Thank you.

See link 128.

[alanmolstad]

So if anyone would like a listing of good books to get that will offer the bible student the needed information on the truth abut Evolution and Genesis?...

Just drop me a Private Message and you will soon be able to both amaze and instruct your Sunday school teacher as well as your friends and family with facts that prove Evolution works hand-in-hand with Genesis, all right out out the bible!!!

[jude1:3]

Alan says that YEC must add to the Bible, but honestly I see the exact opposite.

I see Theistic Evolutionists Adding to the Bible with their "Theories" instead of just reading it in a straight forward plain way.

Macroevolution is Heretical Garbage and those who promote it are in danger of Hell Fire:

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, And ALL LIARS shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




* Do some research on Charles Darwin's family "History" and it will become clear on how demonic his Theory is.

[jude1:3]

Research Charles Darwin's grandfather Erasmus Darwin and that will tell you all you need to know about what a devil Charles Darwin was.

[alanmolstad]

I have quoted scripture for every teaching I have so far shared.
I will continue to do this as I go forward too.

I base all things on the Bible...never do I say anything unless I have a scripture to back it up.

I have always invited every person reading my words , (including you Jude1;3) that if they have a question about where something I have taught appears in the Bible?, that all they have to do is ask for the bible verse and I will tell them where to look.


I got solid support for everything!


I have over and over asked people who doubt that Evolution walks in harmony with Genesis to open up their own Bible and follow along as I show you what the text says.

In return, I got one guy on this forum who posts that its wrong to question the YEC teachers, another guy who cant seem to find his Bible, and the 3rd guy who seems to only know how to insult other guests.






From their lack of being able to post Bible verses to support YEC I can only shake my head and smile.


Be that as it may, Im going to be posting more pro-Evolution posts, starting more "Genesis and Evolution agree" topics, and answering all Bible questions on the topic of how Evolution is actually God's handiwork, and totally within the things Christians can believe in.

[alanmolstad]

to review:



God created the sun and stars first.
The sun and moon and stars are the only source for the "light" talked about in all of Genesis.
The stars were NOT made on the 4th day.
The Earth was created as a dead dry world.
The reason the "waters" are said to be in "darkness" is given in *** 38
At *** 38 the reason for the darkness is thick clouds.
The 7th Day of the creation week has no ending yet in the Bible.
Thus we are still in the 7th day of the creation week
Animals died before the sin of Adam.
All life, both human and animals life is from the same single source.
The single source for all life, is the earth itself.





If you want to know how the things on that list are true?....ask me for the verse that teaches them and I will list it.

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I have quoted scripture for every teaching I have so far shared.
I will continue to do this as I go forward too.

I base all things on the Bible...never do I say anything unless I have a scripture to back it up.

I have always invited every person reading my words , (including you Jude1;3) that if they have a question about where something I have taught appears in the Bible?, that all they have to do is ask for the bible verse and I will tell them where to look.


I got solid support for everything!


I have over and over asked people who doubt that Evolution walks in harmony with Genesis to open up their own Bible and follow along as I show you what the text says.

In return, I got one guy on this forum who posts that its wrong to question the YEC teachers, another guy who cant seem to find his Bible, and the 3rd guy who seems to only know how to insult other guests.






From their lack of being able to post Bible verses to support YEC I can only shake my head and smile.


Be that as it may, Im going to be posting more pro-Evolution posts, starting more "Genesis and Evolution agree" topics, and answering all Bible questions on the topic of how Evolution is actually God's handiwork, and totally within the things Christians can believe in.

Non-Christian blather as shown

Since you won't defend Christianity's relation to evolution, we are left with what must be your rebellious intentions against Christianity

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

to review:



God created the sun and stars first.
The sun and moon and stars are the only source for the "light" talked about in all of Genesis.
The stars were NOT made on the 4th day.
The Earth was created as a dead dry world.
The reason the "waters" are said to be in "darkness" is given in *** 38
At *** 38 the reason for the darkness is thick clouds.
The 7th Day of the creation week has no ending yet in the Bible.
Thus we are still in the 7th day of the creation week
Animals died before the sin of Adam.
All life, both human and animals life is from the same single source.
The single source for all life, is the earth itself.





If you want to know how the things on that list are true?....ask me for the verse that teaches them and I will list it.

Starting now with "God created the sun and stars first." lets go over each of the things on my list.

If you were to actually open your Bible and read it.,the first thing you will read is that -"In the beginning God created the Heavens and the earth"
This sentence tells us many things,"In the beginning" is telling us when. The beginning means before anything else...it means that all things that happen come "after" this.
Don't ever let anyone tell you that something came before this...As Walter Martin used to say, "You cant have 2 firsts!"

The who is "God"
and the what is the heavens and the earth.
Now the use of the term "Heavens" is important to this discussion.
In the Bible you likely were taught that the word "Heavens" can have 3 meanings. The Bible does talk about some people going to the "3rd Heaven".
And all this is true.

But what is key for us is learning that among the correct meanings to the term "Heavens" is the idea of all the stars.
I would argue that this meaning of all the stars is the correct meaning for Genesis 1:1.

But its not just stars, for if the writer had wanted to say that God just created the stars there is another word that means stars that he should have used. But the use of the term "Heavens
opens up the understanding very wide for what it can mean.

Heavens can mean, "Everything"...all the stars, all the worlds,all the Black Holes, all the dust clouds that drift though deep space...

In other words, all the stuff"up there" in outer space,is correctly called by this one single word "Heavens"....

Thus, the use of the term "Heavens" is the one word the writer could have picked to use that correctly describes all the things that Science tells us were created in the Big Bang!


So nothing in this verse stands against Science or evolution.
We do understand that the main difference here in the verse is that the Bible tells us the who.....the who is "God"....and this is something that science can never tell us.
There is no test known to science that can prove there is a god....

This is why the story of Genesis is such a good thing for us to do.
For while both evolution and Genesis are talking about the very same earth history,only in the scripture do we see the real reasoning mind behind all things that we study in science.

This also is why we can say that Evolution and genesis walk hand-in-hand and offer us a well-rounded understanding of early earth history.

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Be that as it may, Im going to be posting more pro-Evolution posts, starting more "Genesis and Evolution agree" topics, and answering all Bible questions on the topic of how Evolution is actually God's handiwork, and totally within the things Christians can believe in.

"Anyone who isn't with me opposes me, and anyone who isn't working with me is actually working against me." Mat 12:30
If you are pro-Evolution then you are working against Jesus.

[alanmolstad]

Next - The sun and moon and stars are the only source for the "light" talked about in all of Genesis.


The YEC teachers will try to tell you that they dont really have any idea where the "light" talked about at the start of genesis came from.

This is where the YEC teachers start to invent ideas and twist them into the text.
They dont know where the light came from, so they make up an answer..."Its a source-less light"

OK, lets face facts,,,thats a silly answer..
Its the kind of answer a child might come up with when they get caught not knowing something they should know.

Whole chapters of YEC text books are written all around the topic of this light that has no source.
It is very much responsible for a lot of the errors found in YEC teachings...this tendency to stray away from what the text says in blace and whole and just pull things out of the air and then tell students to bow down to them....even though they were invented.

the work the YEC teachers put into defending their silly idea about a light with no source is very sad...yet its typical for teachers that long ago gave up reading the text in favor of just making stuff up.


and...all this is so unnecessary!
The Text has a nice source written down for all the light talked about in genesis...both the light talked about with the "Let there be light" verse as well as the light talked about on Day 4.

What is that source for the light of genesis?......the sun.


Thats the answer....the source for all the light in genesis is just the normal sun we see today in the sky.

When the Bible tells us that "In the beginning God created the heavens(all the stars including our sun) and the earth", it gave us the source for all the light it would later talk about.


so the sun is the source for the light in genesis.

its a simply answer...and the best answer because its the only correct answer too!

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by disciple

"Anyone who isn't with me opposes me, and anyone who isn't working with me is actually working against me." Mat 12:30
If you are pro-Evolution then you are working against Jesus.

Agreed! Which stems from the thread’s purpose,

That which has to do with God, Jesus Christ.

Not that which has not to do with God.

And that which has not to do with Jesus,

Has not to do with God.

“For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.” (Colossians 2:9)

Therefore, the thread is under continual har***ment of derailment at best,

and a “****able heresy” to deceive the personal wellbeing of the weaker Christian at worst.

The preservation of the Christian element here, are for the time being at the mercy of the commenters. For those at the helm seem very comfortable with unobstructed derailment.

Mike.

[MichaellS]

Moderator or reader!?!

The Christian element here is unanimous.

I think I speak for all of us here in that appeal after appeal to reason with Alanmolstad remains a shambles.

Alanmolstad’s involvement on this thread now remains solely for derailment and the enlistment of potential individuals to heresy, period.

Any objections to this? Feel free to do so. But please advise us those objections from the word of God.

Mike.

[alanmolstad]

The stars were NOT made on the 4th day.


This does surprise a few people.
Many people read the text they find dealing with the 4th day of Genesis and think that not only does the text clearly says that god made the stars on this day, but also the sun and moon too.

So How can i say that not only are the stars not said to be made on the 4th day, but also the text does not actually say the sun and moon were made on the 4th day as well..


doubt me?.......well,lets read what we find in the Bible.

Genesis 1:16....."God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars."
Holy smoke, does it really say that god made the sun and moon and stars?....could Alan actually be wrong?....(Lets look closer)


What actually does it say?...does it literally say that God made the "sun?......No!

Does it literally say God made the "moon".....No!.


Well, what does it say was made on the 4th day?.....a greater light and a lesser light.


thats it?....no sun?......nope,

just the light, not the sun itself?....thats right.

its sorta like having the light from a light bulb as compared to having the light bulb itself.

The light is different that the bulb....

Its like the noise of my truck is not the same thing as my truck itself...You can have one without the other....You can seethe light from a source and not be able to see the source itself,,,(like not being able to see the sun at night or on a cloudy day)
The sun is still there, burning as brightly as ever..Its just for some reason you cant see the sun itself with now.


But what about the stars?.....the Bible does not actually say God made the stars on the 4th day.

But in my bible it does say he made the stars on the 4th day, how can that be?.....lets check the King James.

Why should we check the King James bible?...because the King James will have a way to learn what words were added by the editors for different reasons, ...The KJ will show us what words are not found in the Hebrew by putting the words inside brackets [ ]


So now lets read the verse in the King James and see if that points something out that we didn't know before?...


"And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also."



What words are in brackets?......"he made"



So "he made" are added and not in the Hebrew?.....yes!

Well what happens if you dont add them to the verse,, what does it then teach?....it teaches that the lesser light rules over the night and the stars.


Thats it?..just that the lesser light rules over the night and the stars, not that they were made?....see how simple it is!







So the Bible then clearly has no anti-science verses in the genesis story?.....no, none at all...In fact i like to view the relationship of Genesis to science as showing us that there is such a thing as theistic-science !

[alanmolstad]

once again if anyone has a question about something I have posted?...just drop me a message and I will be happy to answer any questions about what i have written or on genesis you have.

I really want to help anyone that has had to struggle with this issue in the past and would like to know how to stand up to the YEC teachings.

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

once again if anyone has a question about something I have posted?.

What does this mean after all this. If we had any questions on what scripture? There is no scripture that I haven't touched on, and you won't discuss it with me, including Genesis?

What an outright bias you bring.

"But if you show partiality, you are committing sin" (James 2:9)

[alanmolstad]

If you have a question on any of the many Scripture I have quoted? Or would like to know more about what I have taught on so far? ....just drop me a message.

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

If you have a question on any of the many Scripture I have quoted? Or would like to know more about what I have taught on so far? ....just drop me a message.

Yes, I have a question on what you have taught based on this.

1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. (I John 4:1-3)

Would you signify your adherence to the body of Christ, and confirm His coming in the flesh by simply saying, AMEN?

Thank you for your answer that will come!

Mike.
.

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

If you have a question on any of the many Scripture I have quoted? Or would like to know more about what I have taught on so far? ....just drop me a message.

Third attempt to secure my question as it didn’t go through to Alan as Alan requested.

Yes, I have a question on what you have taught based on this.

1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. (I John 4:1-3)

Would you signify your adherence to the body of Christ, and confirming His coming in the flesh by simply saying, AMEN?

Thank you for your answer that will come!

Mike.
.

[alanmolstad]

Mike....

I asked people to simply do what is listed at Acts 17:11 , where the Berean Jews listened to what Paul came to them and taught, and then they opened their Scriptures to see if what Paul was saying was true?

" Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true ".



That's how you test things...

Every word that I have shared here (and will share in the future) is always backed with Scripture.

I have over and over told you that if you don't believe something I'm teaching and you have a doubt that my teachings are found in the bible?..that the Christian response (and my request) is that you should open your Bible and check to see if the Bible says what I say it says?

Treat my words the same way the Jew treated the words of Paul.....check em out!



That is all Im asking you to do.
No math, no heavy lifting, just open your Bible to a verse I listed that teaches what I claim and see what it says there...

The reaction to this request is to call my Christian faith into question ?
To act all "How dare Alan about that!", and accuse me of discussing something that should never be discussed ?
To attempt to get the owner of this forum to shut down the topic ?

That's typical...

So far whats that all got you?


Nothing?......well, have you tied holding your breath?

[jude1:3]

Evolution is a demonic theory promoted by Evil Men and given to them by satan.

These evil people wanted to "DESTROY THE BIBLE WITHOUT BURNING IT THROUGH THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION."

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

to review:



God created the sun and stars first.
The sun and moon and stars are the only source for the "light" talked about in all of Genesis.
The stars were NOT made on the 4th day.
The Earth was created as a dead dry world.
The reason the "waters" are said to be in "darkness" is given in *** 38
At *** 38 the reason for the darkness is thick clouds.
The 7th Day of the creation week has no ending yet in the Bible.
Thus we are still in the 7th day of the creation week
Animals died before the sin of Adam.
All life, both human and animals life is from the same single source.
The single source for all life, is the earth itself.





If you want to know how the things on that list are true?....ask me for the verse that teaches them and I will list it.

well if there are no questions?..then later tonight I think we can press on to this next teachings of the Bible...

The Earth was created as a dead dry world.

[MichaellS]

How supremely unfortunate a twist THIS time over these last entries of all of our concern, and to say it is a paramount concern seems to fall well short over what has just occurred.

I am compelled to rest.

Mike.
.