The Mormon "god" has a Physical Body? Rank Heresy!

[Apologette]

Mormons are often wooden literalists. Were Mormons made to actually act out their literalness biblically they would believe Jesus was a door or a gate literally. This type of strange, bizarre literalism derives from Joseph Smith who plainly was not an expert in metaphor. He really was an intellectual midget when it came to understanding Scripture, which is why the Mormons have been left hanging by a thread amid a "world come of age," as Bonhoeffer would say. Modern men simply aren't fooled by silly claims (by Smith) - it is very obvious that a Mormon "prophet" who batted zero when it comes to prophecy was an impostor. But, sadly, hard evidence, isn't something to be considered in the Mormon camp - warm fuzzies are.

In the Old Testament, find the use of anthropomorphic terminology to describe God. This means God is described in ways that reflect human attributes: He has a hand, he has feet on a footstool, a face, etc. The Old Testament descriptions are called "anthropomorphic," or reflecting the same physical characteristics a man may have. But does the use of these phrases mean that the God of the Old Testament is a literal physical man as the Mormons would have us believe? I found this interesting article written from an academic point of view which might enable us to better appreciate this type of anthropomorphic descriptions of God:

http://www.bible-researcher.com/anthropomorphism.html

Please take note of the final paragraph of the article linked to:

One realizes at this point the function of the anthropomorphisms. Their intention is not in the least to reduce God to a rank similar to that of man. To describe God in terms of human characteristics is not to humanize him. That has never happened except in unreasonable polemic. Rather the purpose of anthropomorphisms is to make God accessible to man. They hold open the door for encounter and controversy between God's will and man's will. They represent God as person. They avoid the error of presenting God as a careless and soulless abstract Idea or a fixed Principle standing over against man like a strong silent battlement. God is personal. He has a will, he exists in controversy ready to communicate himself, offended at men's sins yet with a ready ear for their supplication and comp***ion for their confessions of guilt: in a word, God is a living God. Through the anthropomorphisms of the Old Testament God stands before man as the personal and living God, who meets him with will and with works, who directs his will and his words towards men and draws near to men. God is the living God (Jer. 10:10).

God has fully revealed Himself in the New Testament documents. For instance:

1 Timothy 6:16–17
16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

The above verse pretty much indicates that God ALONE IS IMMORTAL! When a Christian dies, they are not intrinsically immortal - and to say we have an immortal soul is actually untrue. A Christian derives immortality from the One Whom alone possesses it. It is a derived immortality contingent upon Our God. This is pretty much what glorification is also about - having the characteristics of God given to us as a gift, not a change in our nature from humanity to God. We will always be men, and always dependent upon the Creator. So, God dwells in "unapproachable light," and is invisible, cannot be seen! This bespeaks a Being who is certainly not a physical man.

This goes along with:


John 6:46
46 “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.

No man has seen the Father, including Joseph Smith, because He dwells in unapproachable light and is invisible.

This is confirmed here:

John 5:37
37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.

Seems to me that the Lord is quite adamant about the fact that His Father is invisible to us.

Jesus, Himself, the Second Person of the Godhead, took on flesh to reveal God's nature to us:


Hebrews 1:1–3

1 God, after He aspoke long ago to the fathers in bhe prophets in many portions and in many ways,
2 in these last days has spoken to us 2in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

See, Jesus reveals God's nature to us because He is God! Not some physical shape (Mormons often portray the Father and Son as identical twins, a childish literalness); Jesus is speaking of God's nature in terms of How God relates to men, His love, His Judgment, His Majesty.

Finally, this verse sums up the whole discussion:

John 4:24
24 “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.

How can we worship God "in spirit?" By being born-again. Man is born with a spirit dead to God, a spirit which needs to be brought to life, reborn, born-again as Jesus put it. And we cannot worship God Who is spirit, Himself, until our own spirit is brought to life. And then, and then only, can we know the Truth, Who is Jesus Christ. We become incorporated into the Body of Christ, and are able to approach the God of the Universe through His Truth! That is the only way.

Since Mormons are not born again in the inner man, they cannot grasp spiritual truths. So, basically what we post here is either for Christians, who can, or those considering Mormonism - that they won't be further deceived by the rambling false missionaries of Mormonism and their attackws on the Body of Christl.

[theway]

Mormons are often wooden literalists. Were Mormons made to actually act out their literalness biblically they would believe Jesus was a door or a gate literally. This type of strange, bizarre literalism derives from Joseph Smith who plainly was not an expert in metaphor. He really was an intellectual midget when it came to understanding Scripture, which is why the Mormons have been left hanging by a thread amid a "world come of age," as Bonhoeffer would say. Modern men simply aren't fooled by silly claims (by Smith) - it is very obvious that a Mormon "prophet" who batted zero when it comes to prophecy was an impostor. But, sadly, hard evidence, isn't something to be considered in the Mormon camp - warm fuzzies are.

In the Old Testament, find the use of anthropomorphic terminology to describe God. This means God is described in ways that reflect human attributes: He has a hand, he has feet on a footstool, a face, etc. The Old Testament descriptions are called "anthropomorphic," or reflecting the same physical characteristics a man may have. But does the use of these phrases mean that the God of the Old Testament is a literal physical man as the Mormons would have us believe? I found this interesting article written from an academic point of view which might enable us to better appreciate this type of anthropomorphic descriptions of God:

http://www.bible-researcher.com/anthropomorphism.html

Please take note of the final paragraph of the article linked to:

One realizes at this point the function of the anthropomorphisms. Their intention is not in the least to reduce God to a rank similar to that of man. To describe God in terms of human characteristics is not to humanize him. That has never happened except in unreasonable polemic. Rather the purpose of anthropomorphisms is to make God accessible to man. They hold open the door for encounter and controversy between God's will and man's will. They represent God as person. They avoid the error of presenting God as a careless and soulless abstract Idea or a fixed Principle standing over against man like a strong silent battlement. God is personal. He has a will, he exists in controversy ready to communicate himself, offended at men's sins yet with a ready ear for their supplication and comp***ion for their confessions of guilt: in a word, God is a living God. Through the anthropomorphisms of the Old Testament God stands before man as the personal and living God, who meets him with will and with works, who directs his will and his words towards men and draws near to men. God is the living God (Jer. 10:10).

God has fully revealed Himself in the New Testament documents. For instance:

1 Timothy 6:16–17
16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

The above verse pretty much indicates that God ALONE IS IMMORTAL! When a Christian dies, they are not intrinsically immortal - and to say we have an immortal soul is actually untrue. A Christian derives immortality from the One Whom alone possesses it. It is a derived immortality contingent upon Our God. This is pretty much what glorification is also about - having the characteristics of God given to us as a gift, not a change in our nature from humanity to God. We will always be men, and always dependent upon the Creator. So, God dwells in "unapproachable light," and is invisible, cannot be seen! This bespeaks a Being who is certainly not a physical man.

This goes along with:


John 6:46
46 “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.

No man has seen the Father, including Joseph Smith, because He dwells in unapproachable light and is invisible.

This is confirmed here:

John 5:37
37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.

Seems to me that the Lord is quite adamant about the fact that His Father is invisible to us.

Jesus, Himself, the Second Person of the Godhead, took on flesh to reveal God's nature to us:


Hebrews 1:1–3

1 God, after He aspoke long ago to the fathers in bhe prophets in many portions and in many ways,
2 in these last days has spoken to us 2in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

See, Jesus reveals God's nature to us because He is God! Not some physical shape (Mormons often portray the Father and Son as identical twins, a childish literalness); Jesus is speaking of God's nature in terms of How God relates to men, His love, His Judgment, His Majesty.

Finally, this verse sums up the whole discussion:

John 4:24
24 “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.

How can we worship God "in spirit?" By being born-again. Man is born with a spirit dead to God, a spirit which needs to be brought to life, reborn, born-again as Jesus put it. And we cannot worship God Who is spirit, Himself, until our own spirit is brought to life. And then, and then only, can we know the Truth, Who is Jesus Christ. We become incorporated into the Body of Christ, and are able to approach the God of the Universe through His Truth! That is the only way.

Since Mormons are not born again in the inner man, they cannot grasp spiritual truths. So, basically what we post here is either for Christians, who can, or those considering Mormonism - that they won't be further deceived by the rambling false missionaries of Mormonism and their attackws on the Body of Christl.Do you worship Jesus?

[alanmolstad]

Do you worship Jesus? I do.

Jesus is God, fully 100% God Almighty and so worthy of worship.

Remember what it says in the Nicene creed ...

[theway]

I do.

Jesus is God, fully 100% God Almighty and so worthy of worship.

Remember what it says in the Nicene creed ...Does Jesus as God have an eternally incarnate resurrected body of flesh and bone?

[alanmolstad]

Does Jesus as God have an eternally incarnate resurrected body of flesh and bone?

as human he does.

remember Jesus is 100% human.
as such he has the very same type of human body that one day all Christians will have.
He is the guide we have to look at to learn what our fate is.

[theway]

as human he does.

remember Jesus is 100% human.
as such he has the very same type of human body that one day all Christians will have.
He is the guide we have to look at to learn what our fate is.Then, it's safe to say that "The Evangelical "God" has a Physical Body".
According to CA, that's "Rank Heresy!"

[alanmolstad]

Then, it's safe to say that "The Evangelical "God" has a Physical Body".
According to CA, that's "Rank Heresy!"

you have to clearly define your terms...and the context..LOL

Unless you clearly spell out what you are talking about you can find all sorts of ways to make it seem like 2 people are in disagreement when actually they agree 100%

God does not have a physical body....this very much 100% true.

There is none who can disagree with this statement of fact...God is not a man ...God is not a cow...God is not a sheep or a goat or a dog...or a chicken...(even if it says in the bible that god has wings, he actually does not)

So God is pure spirit, and as such lacks any physical form.

Jesus has a 2nd nature.
Jesus is man.
As a man Jesus has a normal human body.

So God does not have a physical body, but Jesus being the son of man and the son of God, does have a body.
This did not change the divine nature of Jesus...Jesus is still the WORD,, still pure spirit.
But Jesus also has a 2nd human nature too.



so understand now?

This is why you have to be carefull to define your terms and learn the context of what people are talking about or you may accidentally think two people disagree over the nature of god, when they dont at all!

[theway]

you have to clearly define your terms...and the context..LOL

Unless you clearly spell out what you are talking about you can find all sorts of ways to make it seem like 2 people are in disagreement when actually they agree 100%

God does not have a physical body....this very much 100% true.

There is none who can disagree with this statement of fact...God is not a man ...God is not a cow...God is not a sheep or a goat or a dog...or a chicken...(even if it says in the bible that god has wings, he actually does not)

So God is pure spirit, and as such lacks any physical form.

Jesus has a 2nd nature.
Jesus is man.
As a man Jesus has a normal human body.Let's see....

You agreed that you worship Jesus...
You then agreed that Jesus is God...
Likewise you agreed with me that at this time Jesus has a body of flesh and bones....

ERGO... you worship a God with a physical body!

There is simply no other way to see it!

[alanmolstad]

Let's see....

You agreed that you worship Jesus...
!Oh yes.....very true.
Jesus is 100% God Almighty....

[alanmolstad]

You then agreed that Jesus is God...


yes!....very true again.

Jesus is the 2nd person of the trinity.
Fully God and Full man.

[alanmolstad]

Likewise you agreed with me that at this time Jesus has a body of flesh and bones....



Jesus was born with a body of flesh and blood....it was a mortal body.
after the resurrection Jesus took up his body that was changed to everlasting.

this is the same type of body I will one day live within.

[alanmolstad]

ERGO... you worship a God with a physical body!

Yes, the devine nature that is pure spirit is wrapped in flesh.
So the nature of god is not changed.....God did not change.....The nature of God being always pure invisible spirit has not changed in even the smallest amount.
But so that Jesus could die for us, he had a 2nd nature....a pure human nature.

as he has to this very hour

so when we worship god, we worship in spirit, because god is always pure spirit.


understand?

[alanmolstad]

so.....it's like telling me that "Alan you worship a man, because you worship Jesus and you said yourself Jesus is just a normal human, so that means you dont worship God you worship a man"

My answer is that I worship God, who is and always will be pure spirit.
I worship Jesus, who is God, and is pure spirit.
Jesus is also God wrapped in the 2nd nature of a man.

Understand?

[Zeus]

theway,

It is indeed such simple logic that even a child can understand:

Jesus is God
Jesus has a physical (albeit a glorified and immortal) body.
Therefore it is valid to say "God has a physical body"

What critics of Mormonism want to do is try and twist the logic, rationalize, and justify why it is okay for them to believe God has a physical body while at the same time calling Mormons' belief that God has a body "rank heresy".

[Zeus]

so.....it's like telling me that "Alan you worship a man, because you worship Jesus and you said yourself Jesus is just a normal human, so that means you dont worship God you worship a man"

It isn't like that at all since nobody here believes Jesus was "just a normal human".

Your ****ogy is actually what the anti-LDS crowd are doing. You are twisting words and definitions in order to fit your preconceived false biases about Mormonism.

[alanmolstad]

So when a christian says that "God took upon Himself human flesh and was born a man" we dont mean that God changed.
We are not saying that anything about God changed from being the pure invisible spirit that he is and always will be.

But for the cross, Jesus took upon himself the 2nd nature of man.

[alanmolstad]

It isn't like that at all since nobody here believes Jesus was "just a normal man".

well...see...Jesus has to be a normal human or else his resurrection was different than my resurrection.
And if his resurrection was any different , then he is not my savior and i need to look to another for salvation.


only if i can look to the body of Christ and see a typical human body like my own can I really know for sure that what happened to Jesus will in the same way happen to me.


But the bible tells me that i can look at the life of Christ to see what will also happen to me...He is firstborn from the dead.

[theway]

Yes, the devine nature that is pure spirit is wrapped in flesh.
So the nature of god is not changed.....God did not change.....The nature of God being always pure invisible spirit has not changed in even the smallest amount.
But so that Jesus could die for us, he had a 2nd nature....a pure human nature.

as he has to this very hour

so when we worship god, we worship in spirit, because god is always pure spirit.


understand?Sure I understand, you are trying to equivocate you answer. Nothing I haven't witnessed a hundred times before. But then "who are you trying to fool?" We all know its impossible to reconcile the modern Trinity with the Bible, many greater than you have tried and failed.

Best you just declare the whole thing a "Mystery" without an answer, as all those before you have done.

[alanmolstad]

Sure I understand, you are trying to equivocate you answer.

I have no response to that...LOL

I have no idea what that means....

[Zeus]

So when a christian says that "God took upon Himself human flesh and was born a man" we dont mean that God changed.
We are not saying that anything about God changed from being the pure invisible spirit that he is and always will be.

But for the cross, Jesus took upon himself the 2nd nature of man.

Likewise, Mormons also believe God has a pure spirit. We also happen to believe that pure spirit is wrapped in a physical body.

When you break it down to its simplest logic, there isn't any difference. You may argue the differences in the beliefs of how, why, when God received a body, but that would be a different argument than claiming it is "rank heresy" to believe God has a body. The way this argument is being presented here is actually dishonest and misleading.

[alanmolstad]

But.....if you have a question, or want me to go over something again?...just let me know.

Im told to be ready always, to give an answer to the hope that is within me.

and I try to be ready to provide such answers as best i know how....

[alanmolstad]

claiming it is "rank heresy" oh trust me, its RANK HERESY to be sure.

And the people that put their trust in any of Smith's lies are going to burn.....case-closed.

[Apologette]

Do you worship Jesus?

Of course, and so did the wise men? You are not very wise, are you?

[theway]

oh trust me, its RANK HERESY to be sure.

And the people that put their trust in any of Smith's lies are going to burn.....case-closed.In other words...

Nuh-uh!

So far you have not even explained why it is you agree with us on every point, but our belief is "Rank Heresy" and yours is not????

[theway]

Of course, and so did the wise men? You are not very wise, are you?So???
What does being wise have to do with anything?

My being "not wise" does not change the fact that YOU are completely wrong.

[alanmolstad]

In other words...

Nuh-uh!

So far you have not even explained why it is you agree with us on every point, but our belief is "Rank Heresy" and yours is not????

Um, "explained"?

I have answered all the questions you asked...You seem to have something else on your mind however...LOL

Do you want Jim to slide in here with a listing of all the false teachings of Smith that are against the teachings of the bible and are anti-Christ?

I could PM him to help us out

But trust me....Smith believers burn.

[Zeus]

oh trust me, its RANK HERESY to be sure.

Only in the mind of those who refuse to see the simple logic that destroys their preconcieved biases.


And the people that put their trust in any of Smith's lies are going to burn.....case-closed.

And you just prove, by that comment, that I am right. "Smith said it, therefore I don't believe it, my mind is closed", without realizing that you undermind your own position by doing so.

[alanmolstad]

if you have a question....I will do my best to provide answers.

[Zeus]

if you have a question....I will do my best to provide answers.

Okay, why is it okay for you to believe that God can be pure spirit AND take on a physical body, but if a Mormon believes that it is "rank heresy"?

Keep it simple.

[alanmolstad]

Okay, why is it okay for you to believe that God can be pure spirit AND take on a physical body, but if a Mormon believes that it is "rank heresy"?

Keep it simple.God the Son....

If anyone teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh, they are outside the faith and doomed.
If anyone teaches that God the Father has sex, they are outside the faith and doomed.
If anyone teaches that Satan and Jesus are brothers, they are outside the faith and doomed.

So while I may not know as much about Mormon teachings as Walter Martin and our own forum's James, I yet can list a few items of interest that if anyone believes will place out outside the faith....and to be outside the faith is only doom.

For more information on comparing Mormonism to the Christian faith I would "simply" refer you to Walter Martin's Book, The Maze of Mormonism.

[Zeus]

God the Son....

But that is still God to you.

So saying "God has a body is rank heresy" condemns you too, unless you equivocate it and rationalize it in a way that makes it okay for you to believe it but casts Mormons to Hell.


If anyone teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh, they are outside the faith and doomed.


Where does your Bible teach that a belief in God the Father having a body is cause for ****ation and doom?

[alanmolstad]

But that is still God to you.

So saying "God has a body is rank heresy" condemns you too, unless you equivocate it and rationalize it in a way that makes it okay for you to believe it but casts Mormons to Hell.



Where does your Bible teach that a belief in God the Father having a body is cause for ****ation and doom?god does not have a body...God is spirit.Z

Anyone that says God has a body of flesh is outside the christian faith and doomed.

You dont get to add to the word....

You dont get to dream up new teachings.

You dont get to believe that God the father has a body of flesh....For the bible says "God is spirit"


So the "Faith" was "Once for all" given....there are no more teachings...no more new ideas....no more stuff to learn.
It's all already given to us.

The moment Smith started to teach that he had stuff for people to believe, he doomed himself and his followers.

The more I study Mormonism the more I see it as an attempt by Satan to be seen as being "God"


The bible teaches us about Christ and the path to salvation we find in the cross of christ.
There is no other path to the father.

No Mormon goes to heaven.

None....zip, zero....

[alanmolstad]

do you understand?

[theway]

god does not have a body...God is spirit.Z

Anyone that says God has a body of flesh is outside the christian faith and doomed.

You dont get to add to the word....

You dont get to dream up new teachings.

You dont get to believe that God the father has a body of flesh....For the bible says "God is spirit"


So the "Faith" was "Once for all" given....there are no more teachings...no more new ideas....no more stuff to learn.
It's all already given to us.

The moment Smith started to teach that he had stuff for people to believe, he doomed himself and his followers.

The more I study Mormonism the more I see it as an attempt by Satan to be seen as being "God"


The bible teaches us about Christ and the path to salvation we find in the cross of christ.
There is no other path to the father.

No Mormon goes to heaven.

None....zip, zero....So you are saying that if there was more teachings of Jesus which were not printed in the "Modern Protestant Bible" you would not believe them are read them???

[Zeus]

god does not have a body...God is spirit.Z

But you already said God the Son DOES have a body.

So when you state "God does not have a body, God is spirit", even according to your own belies you need to qualify that statement to fit your theology, because presented the way you are presenting it misleads others."


Anyone that says God has a body of flesh is outside the christian faith and doomed.

I asked for a Biblical reference for this. Simply repeating it as though it were Biblical truth does not make it so.


You dont get to add to the word....

But unless you provide a biblical reference that dooms people who believe the Father has a body, you are guilty of adding to the word.


You dont get to dream up new teachings.

Aren't you dreaming up the teaching that having a belief that the Father has a body is cause for eternal ****ation? Is it your belief that God is so capricious that He would do that?


You dont get to believe that God the father has a body of flesh....For the bible says "God is spirit"

But Mormons believe God is spirit. They also happen to believe that His spirit took on a physical body as well.

Do you really think that God will save those who believe 1/3 of the Godhead has a body, but will condemn to Hell those that believe 2/3 of the Godhead have a body? Is God so capricious that he would do that?


So the "Faith" was "Once for all" given....there are no more teachings...no more new ideas....no more stuff to learn.
It's all already given to us.

So your God is not only capricious, but he has nothing more to teach, no more stuff for us to learn, and has given everything to us?

If so, where did God give to you the teaching that He will doom to Hell those who believe the Father is like the Son, having a body as well as a spirit?


The moment Smith started to teach that he had stuff for people to believe, he doomed himself and his followers.

The more I study Mormonism the more I see it as an attempt by Satan to be seen as being "God"

Show us your Bible where Mormons are doomed for believing 2/3 of God has a body.

[alanmolstad]

So you are saying that if there was more teachings of Jesus which were not printed in the "Modern Protestant Bible" you would not believe them are read them???
I think we talked about this before on one of the other topics.
What I said then was that not one single word can be in disagreement with the faith as received.

This means that even if Jesus,Mary, Peter, Paul, and all the Angels Of HEAVEN all showed up at my door and said the same thing, but that what they all said was against what we now have in the Bible?....I would reject it.


So my views on the matter are clear no?

[alanmolstad]

But you already said God the Son DOES have a body.

.His humanity!..

His humanity has a body of flesh....the human nature of Jesus is the thing we share with him.

Jesus has 2 natures.

[alanmolstad]

I asked for a Biblical reference for this. .

"Alan, where is the scripture that teaches that if you believe God has a tail you are lost?....Don"t you have a clear verse that teaches against it Alan?"

[alanmolstad]

My point?...

I can show you what the bible tells us about God.
I can show you how what the bible says about God is totally different than what Smith says.

I can show you that the bible is serious in that it warns us not to believe in a different faith.

the bible warns us clearly about false Christs....the bible clearly warns us against believing a different message said to come from an angel from heaven...

But there are many who yet will disregard the many warnings found in the bible and will still think it's ok to invent a new god.

they invent a new faith.

they make satan equal with God by their actions...
And that goes with the idea i had that I dont believe Satan fell untill Humans walked the earth...because satan wants to be seen as being equal to god, and that could not be true except for humans to view satan as god.

i dont think other angels ever think Satan is equal to God..
but in Mormonism we see clearly that Satan has achieved his goal of being seen equal within mormon teachings.

You have to consider who Jesus really is...He is God Almighty.
Therefore when a new religion starts up and has as one of it's teachings that Satan and Jesus are brothers?.....that's the thing Satan wanted from the beginning...

To be seen as equal to God Almighty.

[theway]

I think we talked about this before on one of the other topics.
What I said then was that not one single word can be in disagreement with the faith as received.

This means that even if Jesus,Mary, Peter, Paul, and all the Angels Of HEAVEN all showed up at my door and said the same thing, but that what they all said was against what we now have in the Bible?....I would reject it.


So my views on the matter are clear no?Yes, your views are clear...

In your view, your understanding of the Bible is greater than God himself.

In my opinion that is ironically very unbiblical.

[alanmolstad]

Do you really think that God will save those who believe ......

There is a bible verse that talks about this issue.

Jesus is talking, and Jesus says that at the Last day many will say to Him how they had done all these great works for Jesus....cast out demons, heal the sick etc,etc,etc,,,

But then Jesus will turn to them and tell them, "I never knew you"

so these people had done tons and tons of WORKS for Jesus, yet when Jesus says he never knew them he is talking about the fact they the people lacked a "relationship" with Jesus.

but they had been working their ****s off for Jesus???

What this means is that the people can be condemned for putting their faith in the "wrong Jesus"

The people did all this stuff....tons and tons of works in the name of Jesus....

All for nothing because they had the wrong Jesus.




And, The Jesus of Smith is the wrong Jesus.

[alanmolstad]

Yes, your views are clear...

In your view, your understanding of the Bible is greater than God himself.

In my opinion that is ironically very unbiblical.

if there is anything you want me to go over that i have said, or another question?...just ask

[theway]

if there is anything you want me to go over that i have said,
No... As I said you were clear on your beliefs. You stated that if Jesus Himself was to tell you that you interpretation of the Bible was incorrect, you would ignore Him. I get it...

or another question?...just askUnless there is some other area that you are an expert in then OK, but religion and theology just ain't your area of expertise.

[Zeus]

"Alan, where is the scripture that teaches that if you believe God has a tail you are lost?....Don"t you have a clear verse that teaches against it Alan?"

That's fallacious since nobody believes God has a tail.

You believe 1/3 of God has a body.

Mormons believe 2/3 of God has a body.

Show us in your Bible that the latter belief is cause for doom and ****ation while the former will get you saved.

Simply taking Jesus' words out of context and claiming He is ****ing people who did works in His name for the wrong reason is not good enough (at least not good enough for an honest reasoning)

[Zeus]

No... As I said you were clear on your beliefs. You stated that if Jesus Himself was to tell you that you interpretation of the Bible was incorrect, you would ignore Him. I get it...
Unless there is some other area that you are an expert in then OK, but religion and theology just ain't your area of expertise.

I have found that those who worship the Bible more than God have backed themselves into a corner. Like you stated, they not only worship the Bible only, but they idolize their own interpretations of it.

When this happens they make erroneous comments like, "The Bible says that Mormons are ****ed for believing 'X' because it adds to the Bible, when ironically they are adding to the Bible by making up their own criteria for the ****ation of people.

[alanmolstad]

Show us in your Bible that the latter belief is cause for doom and ****ation while the former will get you saved.

As I said in my point, I can show you what the bible teaches about God....and thats about it.

So if there is a religion out there someplace that teaches that God has a tail, (or that the Father has a body, it's the same thing),and then demands that I show them a verse that clearly teaches that believing that the Father has a tail will doom you?...all I can do is once again refer the person to the Scriptures that teach us what God is like.

And to the other scriptures that forbid us from dreaming up a different god.

I can then show the person that Jesus warned us that there will be many people that will do all kinds of great works in his name, yet they are doomed because while they did all this stuff in the name of Jesus it turned out to be the Wrong Jesus!

So there is such an idea of being ****ed for putting your faith in the wrong Jesus.
There are different Christs.
There are new Christs.

There is the Christ of the Bible,
And then there is the new Christ of Smith.

You can put your faith in one and be saved, or you can do all kinds of works for the other and be doomed.

[alanmolstad]

No... As I said you were clear on your beliefs..Well thats all a guy can hope for here.
To be able to state your views clearly and have others understand them...

[alanmolstad]

so let me take this opportunity to review:

God is spirit.
God is always pure spirit and always will be pure spirit.

But so that he could die on the cross for us, the WORD was wrapped in flesh ...Jesus has 2 natures.
One is the nature of God (spirit)
One is the nature of man (flesh)

God never changed. God was not less God.
But for our salvation Jesus took upon Himself human nature.

this is what the bible teaches...this is the true Jesus of the bible.
All other views of God are false.

And that means that because Smith taught different ideas about God the Father having a body that Smith was actually teaching about a false god.
And you do not enter into the kingdom if you put your trust in a false god.

[theway]

Well thats all a guy can hope for here.
To be able to state your views clearly and have others understand them...Not exactly...
All I said was that you were clear about your beliefs or what it is you believe, not that your beliefs can be understood, let alone made any sense.

[RealFakeHair]

Not exactly...
All I said was that you were clear about your beliefs or what it is you believe, not that your beliefs can be understood, let alone made any sense.

Coming from a TBM saying other beliefs don't make sense, you are joking right?

[theway]

so let me take this opportunity to review:

God is spirit.
God is always pure spirit and always will be pure spirit.

But so that he could die on the cross for us, the WORD was wrapped in flesh ...Jesus has 2 natures.
One is the nature of God (spirit)
One is the nature of man (flesh)

God never changed. God was not less God.
But for our salvation Jesus took upon Himself human nature.

this is what the bible teaches...this is the true Jesus of the bible.
All other views of God are false.

And that means that because Smith taught different ideas about God the Father having a body that Smith was actually teaching about a false god.
And you do not enter into the kingdom if you put your trust in a false god.
You are attempting to hide one little fact....

Do you believe that God the Son at this very moment, has a never-to-be-separated body of flesh and bones?

[alanmolstad]

Not exactly...
All I said was that you were clear about your beliefs or what it is you believe,.and thats all a guy can hope for here...

[alanmolstad]

You are attempting to hide one little fact....

Do you believe that God the Son at this very moment, has a never-to-be-separated body of flesh and bones?you mean...he cant fly apart?

I think so....never really thought about it

[theway]

Coming from a TBM saying other beliefs don't make sense, you are joking right?Oh, not at all... Actually the biggest complain against the church by AntiMormons is that we make too much sense. You believe that to understand God is to take away from His incomprehensible awesomeness, and that this somehow makes Him less of a God.

[alanmolstad]

You are attempting to hide one little fact....

You know......

You know I post more words on this forum than all the rest of you guys combined....I answer every question asked...I look up verses, I find videos...I try to make my views as Cristal-clear as i can....and after all this, you think Im still a little foggy in some areas?

what area...what topic is left that i have not beaten to death?

[alanmolstad]

You believe .......


I believe...

Here is what I believe-
I believe you cant add to the word of God.
I believe its a sin to add to the word of God,.
I believe a person is worshiping the wrong god if they are Mormon because the Mormon god is just something Smith dreamed up....

[theway]

you mean...he cant fly apart?

I think so....never really thought about itWell... That's what eternally incarnate means, and this is what you guys believe.

If so.... Then can you really blame people for saying that you worship a God with a body if flesh and bones?

[alanmolstad]

Well... That's what eternally incarnate means, and this what you guys believe.

If so.... Then can you really blame people for saying that you worship a God with a body if flesh and bones?We worship God in spirit, because,,,,,guess what?......God is spirit!

God wrapped himself in human flesh, but never stopped being God.
2 natures in the one person.

That is the christian faith.

The Mormon faith is something different.....they teach you about a father that have a body of flesh and he has sex.

While this different god might make a great made-for-TV movie, it's also enough to get a person doomed for worshiping a different god.

[RealFakeHair]

Oh, not at all... Actually the biggest complain against the church by AntiMormons is that we make too much sense. You believe that to understand God is to take away from His incomprehensible awesomeness, and that this somehow makes Him less of a God.
Well, **** me down or something. So you are saying that the redskin ingens are the lost remnants of the lost tribes of Israel, even though their DNA don't match, and that make sense?

[theway]

We worship God in spirit, because,,,,,guess what?......God is spirit!

God wrapped himself in human flesh, but never stopped being God.
2 natures in the one person.

That is the christian faith.

The Mormon faith is something different.....they teach you about a father that have a body of flesh and he has sex.

While this different god might make a great made-for-TV movie, it's also enough to get a person doomed for worshiping a different god.I notice you still cannot bring yourself to admit publicly that God the Son (right now) has an eternally incarnate body of flesh and bones.

It's OK, you can say it, as it is biblical. However, it might cause you to reexamine a few more of your beliefs.

[theway]

We worship God in spirit, because,,,,,guess what?......God is spirit!
Exactly! Notice it does not say that God is "a" Spirit. That part was taken out in almost all translations. That's because they didn't want you guys to get the wrong idea about what the verse was trying to relay to us.

[RealFakeHair]

Exactly! Notice it does not say that God is "a" Spirit. That part was taken out in almost all translations. That's because they didn't want you guys to get the wrong idea about what the verse was trying to relay to us.

Mormons can't count all their gods on one hand, and that make sense?

[theway]

Mormons can't count all their gods on one hand, and that make sense?About the only thing that doesn't make any sense, is your post????

[RealFakeHair]

About the only thing that doesn't make any sense, is your post????

So TBM make sense with their mormon god coming down to earth and doin the nasty with his earthly daughter to produce the mormon jesus?

[theway]

So TBM make sense with their mormon god coming down to earth and doin the nasty with his earthly daughter to produce the mormon jesus?
Well we all know that is just AntiMormon wishful thinking and has nothing to do with what we believe.

[Phoenix]

What I said then was that not one single word can be in disagreement with the faith as received....
No Mormon goes to heaven.

So you believe that if the faith as received says that Jesus died in His 33rd year, but a person mistakenly believes He died in His 32nd year, that person can't go to heaven because their belief had one word of disagreement with the faith as received?


So my views on the matter are clear no?
I hope not, because if that is clearly what you believe, then that is saddening.

One more thing: The Bible version called the "Textus Receptus" means "text as received." But there are other Bible translations or versions that disagree with the Textus Receptus on at least least one single word. Does that mean that you believe that anyone who uses and relies on such a Bible, can't go to heaven?

[alanmolstad]

So you believe that if the faith as received says that Jesus died in His 33rd year, but a person mistakenly believes He died in His 32nd year, that person can't go to heaven because their belief had one word of disagreement with the faith as received?


I hope not, because if that is clearly what you believe, then that is saddening.



Its friday....I had one of the best Kumdo armor sparing cl*** times i have ever had...My students are getting faster than I am....so Im in a very good mood......

lets pick this up later

[alanmolstad]

So you believe that if the faith as received says that Jesus died in His 33rd year,

I was unaware that the Bible teaches the exact year like this?

Now on other topics I have always said that "I don't do Bible math"....(this would be such a time)...

[alanmolstad]

Well, **** me down ......


Oh.........my.......God........

This is the first use of the phrase "Well **** me down" on this website ever...

I wish we had a prize for you, but all I got is a "Nicely done Sir"

[James Banta]

Oh.........my..............

This is the first use of the phrase "Well **** me down" on this website ever...

I wish we had a prize for you, but all I got is a "Nicely done Sir"

Allen! If you need to use the name of Deity to make a point about Him or His works in a post by all means do so.. But to take His name in vain is not just against the rules of the board it is SIN.. If that is the way you normally speak, fine, but that isn't the way we post here, DON'T DO IT AGAIN!

IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

some people think that "taking the name of the Lord in vain refers to cussing....it dont.

it actually refers to saying things in the Lord's name....as if the Lord said such...

[RealFakeHair]

Well we all know that is just AntiMormon wishful thinking and has nothing to do with what we believe.

That's right keep your head buried in to sand, now that make sense too!

[Phoenix]

That's right keep your head buried in to sand, now that make sense too!
TheWay is correct. You can ask 100 TBMs

"Do you believe RFH's claim about your mormon god coming down to earth and doin the nasty with his earthly daughter to produce the mormon jesus?"

and I would be surprised if more than zero answered "yes."

[James Banta]

TheWay is correct. You can ask 100 TBMs

"Do you believe RFH's claim about your mormon god coming down to earth and doin the nasty with his earthly daughter to produce the mormon jesus?"

and I would be surprised if more than zero answered "yes."

How about if I were to say it without sounding that nasty? How about I say "The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit." Or that "Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!" or "Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers." Would there still be total denial? IHS jim

[Apologette]

You are attempting to hide one little fact....

Do you believe that God the Son at this very moment, has a never-to-be-separated body of flesh and bones?

Which has nothing to do with y our Mormon heresy. Christ's Body is glorified, as will be the bodies of the true saints (Christians). Go look that up and you'll see the difference.

[James Banta]

Which has nothing to do with y our Mormon heresy. Christ's Body is glorified, as will be the bodies of the true saints (Christians). Go look that up and you'll see the difference.

While Jesus was in His mortal body He pronounced that God is Spirit.. Did all His statements that let us see that He and the Father are separate mean that God is not one Lord? No neither does Jesus stating that God is spirit deny Him a spiritual resurrected physical body.. IHS jim

[Phoenix]

How about if I were to say it without sounding that nasty?
You mean how about if you state it so vaguely and ambiguously that the person isn't sure what you're talking about, and would need to read your mind in order to know what you're referring to?


How about I say "The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit."
That can happen without anyone doing the nasty, so you'd end up either confusing the person, or end up confused yourself.


Or that "Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!" or "Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers." Would there still be total denial? IHS jim

If you want a clear, unequivocal answer to "Do you believe God had sex with Mary?" then you need to ask it that way. To do otherwise is to be disingenuous, and does a disservice not only to the people you are trying to trick into saying "Yes" but it also undermines your own credibility.

Why would you NOT want to ask your question as directly and as confusion-free as possible? That is a question that you really need to answer.

[theway]

Which has nothing to do with y our Mormon heresy. Christ's Body is glorified, as will be the bodies of the true saints (Christians). Go look that up and you'll see the difference.
This is what we believe as well!

All these years, and you have yet to understand the simplest doctrine of our Church. You must be getting high on your own AntiMormon supply and believing the things you make up.

[Apologette]

Then, it's safe to say that "The Evangelical "God" has a Physical Body".
According to CA, that's "Rank Heresy!"

No, you are simply uninformed. Jesus is both God and Man; His human nature, ALONE, has a physical body , which is glorified.. You Mormons, to your own ****ation, deny the Incarnation. You are blinded by your own Satanic desire to become God, as was the fatal sin of Satan, who was thrown down to earth because he wished to replace the Creator, as do you Mormons. And so, you who follow after Satan, will spend eternity with him.

Mormons: men become the gods!

Christians: God took on the additional nature of man.

Result: Christians will live with God; Mormons will live eternally with the being who desired to become God and usurp His Throne.

[Apologette]

This is what we believe as well!

All these years, and you have yet to understand the simplest doctrine of our Church. You must be getting high on your own AntiMormon supply and believing the things you make up.

I have nothing to say to some Mormon who calls himself "the way," and usurps the ***le of Jesus Christ. If is blasphemy.