God as Spirit or flesh and bone

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

"christians" are still adamantly arguing how God the Father and Jesus are different and not the same.

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The church teaches that Jesus is not the father, nor the spirit, but the father the son and the spirit are the one true God.

The son has a 2nd nature of a man in addition to being fully God..

The father does not have this 2nd nature...nor does the spirit.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

"In their nature as God, the Father and the Son are equal

But with the nature of God we read the the Son also took the nature of man to himself.
Thus he never stopped being equal to God, but he also has a 2nd nature being equal to us humans.

So the Son is both God almighty and man..."

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Have you ever heard that a "but" negates any statement beforehand?

So yes, I get that you believe that God the Father and Christ are "equal" but not the same. You made my point.

a while ago we had to switch companies that host this site, and in the change over I see that a few things are different.
I cant really post a quote of another member like I see we used to....and the censer is set very high to stop cussing, but it makes a bit hard to post words that have letters in that that trip the blocker setting.

I will see what can be done to fix that.

The son and the father are equal in that they are the one true God.

But the son also has a 2nd nature being human...

So all that the father is, the son is....and thus equal..
But the father is greater than the son too, in that the son is human...100% human, and as such the son worships the father as his God..

Let me know if I have made this unclear...?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

"The son and the father are equal in that they are the one true God.

But the son also has a 2nd nature being human...

So all that the father is, the son is....and thus equal..
But the father is greater than the son too, in that the son is human...100% human, and as such the son worships the father as his God..

Let me know if I have made this unclear...?"

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Yes, so you keep saying...but..they are not the same. I get it.. you keep stating this over and over again. I do not disagree with the fact that you see them differently. You have made yourself very clear.

We really need to fix the quote thingy

so when talking about their divinity, the father and the son are the same....both are the One true God.

Totally equal in all ways....for they are equal in their nature, and there nature is the one God.

so this is why Jesus could say,
"For I and my Father are One and the same!"

(See at 2:25 of video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x_RQ0nYihU

So, which is is''that there nature is the same..or they are different...

now you are contradicting yourself.

You said:

[COLOR="#0000FF"]"The father does not have this 2nd nature...nor the son has a 2nd nature of a man in addition to being fully God..
does the spirit."

and

"Totally equal in all ways"[/COLOR]

Which is it?

(I put in the quote html codes--but let's see if they work.)--just changed the color as the quote stuff is not working for some reason---well just found out, none of the icons are working for me. Strange.

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testtesttest

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test test test test

some stuff is working I guess.

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

test test test test

some stuff is working I guess.

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test test test

we had to change a few things dealing with the server or something like that..

It's still not acting correct when we try to use the respond with a quote thingy..

But it finally better at getting registered more quickly!!!

This should allow new members to come here the first time, and get going faster.

The conformation email sent to your email address now take just a few moment.

it used to take up to a week!
Thats killed the number of people posting,,and killed the number of new people joining.

Im not sure if the auto-cencer is still turned up too high?...

Now Julie....back to our topic-

(Oh and thanks for telling me about the issues the site still has posting. They are a pain but the ability of new members to now register is faster, so that should help topics get going faster now as people that just drop by can join the action a lot faster than they used to be able)

Now, Julie, I read your attempt to quote someone,,if it was me, and if that is something I wrote, then I misspelled the word "now" and it came out as "nor".

I use the word "nor" a lot when I post here...I like the word it seems...
But perhaps too much as it might have replaced the word "now" in this case???


anyway...here is what I would have wanted to say

In their divinity, the Son, the Spirit and the Father are all equal in nature, for their nature is the one true God.

One of the persons of the Trinity is not more "god" that the others.
all the persons of the Trinity are always equal in their divine nature

And this is why Jesus can say, "I and my Father are one and the same" for they are the same in their nature as God.

So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God, yet there are not 3 gods, but only the one true God.
And God cant die.

Thats key to understanding the story of Jesus, that we keep in mind that in their eternal divine nature God cant die...
the Father cant die, the Son cant die, the Spirit cant die.

But because the Father wanted the Son to die for the sins of men so that men could be forgiven when they believe, the Father sent the Son into the world as a man.

So Jesus was given a 2nd nature as being human.

Jesus never stopped being God, so that means Jesus never stopped being totally equal to the Father in his nature as God.
Yet Jesus also has a 2nd nature now as a human like us, and that means that when considering this 2nd human nature Jesus is like us, and so is lower than the angels.

The 2nd nature could die.
This 2nd nature could be very stone cold dead.
This 2nd nature could be resurrected.


So this allowed Jesus to be able to pray to his God, for in his human nature he had to pray to the Father just like all other humans.
Yet Jesus was also God in his divine nature as well.

So now Jesus who is eternal God and who in his divine nature cant die, yet now in his 2nd human nature could and did die.

And when he was dead, The Son's divine nature raised his human nature from the grave.
and the Father raised the Son
and the Spirit raised the Son.

So all 3 members of the Trinity raised the human nature of the Son from the grave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

so this is why Jesus could say,

"For I and my Father are One and the same!"

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Could anyone give us a scriptural cite where Jesus made the claim--"For I and my Father are One and the same!"

Jesus certainly made the claim the "one God" of the biblical text was His God and Father, but nothing as to the same "one God."


John 20:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

You do realize that Im quoting the movie right?
(see post 448)

The phrase appears at the time in the movie when Jesus is rebuking the Jewish leadership.
While this is just a movie, it actually is based on a real story of the Bible and I will post a link where you can dig into the text that deals with the same topic


https://www.gotquestions.org/I-and-t...r-are-one.html

One of the key things to correctly understand the way Jesus used the phrase is to see the reaction Jesus would get.
He was seen to be calling himself "equal with God"

and they wanted to kill him for that.

So its not just talking about being united as one in agreement.

Or in purpose

Or in organization.

That would not have gotten the reaction that Jesus got...for even the Old Testament prophets had stated as much.
No, rather when Jesus spoke this it was aimed at teaching us that there is no difference in his nature with the Father.

This was a rather shocking thing for Jews to hear...a man making the claim to be equal in nature with Almighty God!