I stand by #3 above: "[Torture] leads to bad intelligence, corrupts good intelligence, and confessions stemmed from torture are inadmissible in court."


Did you (re)read this whole thread? I cited two former Army interrogators who explain how proper interrogation works, and why torture is an***hetical to the aim of good intelligence. Would you like me to dig up those links again?


Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
Torture works.
"Torture works". That depends on what you mean by "works". A tortured person will say anything to get the torture to stop. That is torture's aim, and at that it is indeed successful. Surely it leads to confessions — but does it lead to good intelligence? I have not seen convincing evidence to suggest that it does (even if I were to admit for the sake of argument — which I emphatically do not — that the ends justify the means).

The fact is that over 100s and 100s of years the history of how governments have learned things about each other is that the use Torture works
That is absolutely untrue. For the entire history of the U.S., under every presidency from George Washington to William Clinton, torture has been explicitly forbidden. We have held courts-martial and war crimes tribunals against soldiers—both foreign and our own—who have tortured.

there comes a time when you put a guy who might know something into a room, then you go in the same room and do what needs to be done to get the required information.
That's horrific. I can only say that I'm glad that you're not in charge of political and military policy.

"A guy who might know something". Goodness. You even tacitly acknowledge the possibility of torturing the innocent.

In any case, it's fair enough if you want to publicly make an argument that the United States of America should, as a matter of public policy, use torture on those considered or suspected of being enemies of the state. Go ahead and make that argument. But first, ditch the treaties and conventions prohibiting it. Amend the UCMJ.

Don't try to pretend this is how things have always been. It's not.