Thanks for your comments, Bat-Man. It's good to see your thoughts.

Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Man View Post
[Torture is illegal] In some places. Do you claim there are no laws which sanction it ?
No, I guess I should have made it more clear that I was speaking from the perspective of US law. (As well as the other signatories of the Geneva Convention and the UN Convention on Torture.)

Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no.

Some people who are tortured sometimes end up confessing the truth.
This is possible. What distinguishes something as torture is that a person is brought to a point psychologically or physically where they will say anything to stop it.

The real issue is that the information obtained through torture is decidedly unreliable, in that there's no way to quickly tell whether the detainee is lying or telling the truth.

I completely agree.

I agree.

I agree.

Heh, I'm not sure our credibility can get much worse with some people, but I'm willing to believe that is possible.

I agree.
Say it some more.

Just kidding. Thanks for your support.

I have one on the tip of my tongue:

Where do YOU draw the line between torture and the pain that comes from God helping someone to see their condition after they have refused God's help from our Savior ?
Hrm. I'm inclined to the opinion that any post-mortem judgment is decidedly to be left to the discretion of God. I can't speak for any "pain" that God will directly or indirectly inflict, but I can definitively say that any pain humans inflict upon fellow humans, fellow bearers of the imago Dei, should be done with a great deal of circumspection. Torture unquestionably violates this.

I generally agree with the general content of your message, but I'm not sure if we agree on every specific.
Fair enough.

Repentance and forgiveness by those who have the love of God in their soul.
I would like to see repentance from those who authorized such a thing. For me it's not a matter of "forgiveness" but of justice. It does a grave disservice to everyone involved - from the top of the administration, to the ones executing the torture, to the victims, to the victims' families, to the US in general, to the Arab world... - to cover up the atrocities that were committed in our name. ("Our" ***uming you're an American, of course.)

Shalom,
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