God as Spirit or flesh and bone

[jdjhere]

DBerrie2000 asked: "How do you collate that to the "****ousious"(same substance) God?"

God is Spirit. This Spirit is the same substance (****ousious) made up of 3 distinct personalities or persons... the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Christ Body was "added" because He took on flesh to save us, but the substance that is the same (****ousious) is God Himself (Spirit)- that is the Father (Spirit), Son (Spirit) and Holy (Spirit) are the same substance, all fully God, co-eternal Spirit. The Spirit of God that dwells in God the Son is the same substance as God the Father (Spirit) and God the Holy (Spirit). But the Son "took on" or "became" flesh but God the Son (Spirit) that is housed in a Spiritual Body is still the same substance as God the Father (Spirit) and the Holy (Spirit)- that being Eternal Spirit that existed as God with no beginning and no end.
One of the names of God in the Old Testament is Jehovah-Elohim. It is translated in our King James Bible as "The LORD God" and literally means "Jehovah is Elohim," or "The LORD is God."
Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah]."

[jdjhere]

DBerrie2000 said: "even when Jesus Christ is added in the same sentence:"

St John17:3--"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

The question is WHY is Jesus Christ even added to the same sentence? Because eternal life is dependent on what? By knowing the only true God and... who else? Why parallel the two?
1 John 5:20 "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

[dberrie2000]

JD---St John17:3--"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

The question is WHY is Jesus Christ even added to the same sentence? Because eternal life is dependent on what? By knowing the only true God and... who else?

Who else? The only other One the scripture identifies--Jesus Christ.

Your attempt to merge the two runs into immediate problems:


St John20:17--"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Who was Jesus' God? Who does the scriptures identify as the One who gave Jesus Christ His inheritance of all things:

Hebrews1:2--"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

St John20:17--"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Who was Jesus' God? Who does the scriptures identify as the One who gave Jesus Christ His inheritance of all things:

Why do you see this as an issue given the fact that you know that Jesus voluntary lowered himself to be like one of us?

[dberrie2000]

dberrie---Who else? The only other One the scripture identifies--Jesus Christ.

Your attempt to merge the two runs into immediate problems:


St John20:17--"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Who was Jesus' God? Who does the scriptures identify as the One who gave Jesus Christ His inheritance of all things:

Hebrews1:2--"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

Originally Posted by Billyray

Why do you see this as an issue given the fact that you know that Jesus voluntary lowered himself to be like one of us?

Because that explanation does not even touch upon the problem of Jesus having a God over Himself--nor inheriting all things.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Because that explanation does not even touch upon the problem of Jesus having a God over Himself--nor inheriting all things.

When Jesus voluntarily lowered himself to become like one of us wouldn't that include Jesus following God the Father like we are asked to do?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Billyray

When Jesus voluntarily lowered himself to become like one of us wouldn't that include Jesus following God the Father like we are asked to do?

This is the correct answer...

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hebrews1:2--"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

when do you think Jesus went from owing nothing to having all things?

[jdjhere]

DBerrie2000 said: "How could God the Father appear to Jesus Christ in the Mount of Transfiguration, and announce His Only Begotten Son?"

Define "appear" because it was NOT bodily.

Jesus was transformed before His disciples. It would have been of great interest to have heard the words our Lord was speaking to the Father as His appearance began to be changed. Jesus is then called Son by a voice in the sky from God the Father, as in the baptism of Jesus.

Matthew 17:5-8 While he was yet speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold, a voice out of the cloud, saying, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him." And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. And Jesus came and touched them and said, "Arise, and be not afraid." And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one, save Jesus only.
Luke 9:34-36 While he thus spoke, there came a cloud and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered into the cloud. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, “THIS IS MY BELOVED SON. HEAR HIM!”And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept silent, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.
Mark9:7-8 And there came a cloud overshadowing them: and there came a voice out of the cloud, "This is my beloved Son: hear ye him."And suddenly looking round about, they saw no one any more save Jesus only with themselves.
2 Peter 1:16-18 "For we did not follow cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there was borne such a voice to him by the Majestic Glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: and this voice we [ourselves] heard borne out of heaven, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Show me Biblical Scripture that proves the Father "appeared" bodily to Jesus Christ in the Mount of Transfiguration. There was a cloud and a Voice and.... Jesus alone. I wonder why? Maybe because the God the Father is Spirit and God the Son was housed in a body?

[dberrie2000]

dberrie---How could God the Father appear to Jesus Christ in the Mount of Transfiguration, and announce His Only Begotten Son?

JD----Define "appear" because it was NOT bodily.

Jesus was transformed before His disciples. It would have been of great interest to have heard the words our Lord was speaking to the Father as His appearance began to be changed. Jesus is then called Son by a voice in the sky from God the Father, as in the baptism of Jesus.

Matthew 17:5-8 While he was yet speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold, a voice out of the cloud, saying, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him." And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. And Jesus came and touched them and said, "Arise, and be not afraid." And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one, save Jesus only.
Luke 9:34-36 While he thus spoke, there came a cloud and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered into the cloud. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, “THIS IS MY BELOVED SON. HEAR HIM!”And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept silent, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.
Mark9:7-8 And there came a cloud overshadowing them: and there came a voice out of the cloud, "This is my beloved Son: hear ye him."And suddenly looking round about, they saw no one any more save Jesus only with themselves.
2 Peter 1:16-18 "For we did not follow cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there was borne such a voice to him by the Majestic Glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: and this voice we [ourselves] heard borne out of heaven, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Show me Biblical Scripture that proves the Father "appeared" bodily to Jesus Christ in the Mount of Transfiguration. There was a cloud and a Voice and.... Jesus alone. I wonder why? Maybe because the God the Father is Spirit and God the Son was housed in a body?

Whoa, hossy. You likened the Trinity to water in steam, ice, and liquid. I stated ok, but not at the same time.

I placed the Father and the Son together at the same time on the mount of transfiguration to show that ****ogy would not work for me--it had nothing to do with God the Father appearing with a body or without a body.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

I placed the Father and the Son together at the same time on the mount of transfiguration to show that ****ogy would not work for me--it had nothing to do with God the Father appearing with a body or without a body.

Did we ever expect that you would ever hold Christian doctrine?

[jdjhere]

Heh heh... OK DBerrie, I misunderstood you. Sorry bout that, Chief. (To post #35) And I do not know WHY you think we are in a "pickle." Seems pretty straight forward and obvious to me.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000
I placed the Father and the Son together at the same time on the mount of transfiguration to show that ****ogy would not work for me--it had nothing to do with God the Father appearing with a body or without a body.

Originally Posted by Billyray

Did we ever expect that you would ever hold Christian doctrine?

Please explain. But first--are you referring to "Christianity" as the faith alone claim it--or as the Biblical text has it in the NT church?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Please explain.

What is there to explain? You hold heretical doctrine and I don't think any Christian here thinks you will ever see the truth UNLESS God opens up your eyes to the truth.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

What is there to explain? You hold heretical doctrine and I don't think any Christian here thinks you will ever see the truth UNLESS God opens up your eyes to the truth.

But that is just a general statement that anyone can make against another. Please post your scripture and make a specific argument.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Please post your scripture and make a specific argument.

Just about everything you believe is heretical. So where do you want to start?

[jdjhere]

"God the Father does not have a body of flesh and bones, God the Son has a resurrected body."

What exactly is incorrect about this?

If A=B and B=C then A=C

Jesus is God the Son
Jesus has a resurrected body.
God the Son has a resurrected body.

How exactly is that incorrect?

It is NOT incorrect, except one minor thing- your conclusion is INCOMPLETE-

God the Son has a GLORIFIED resurrected SPIRITUAL PHYSICAL BODY that houses the the SPIRIT of God the Son and this Spirit is ****ousios with the Father and the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is FULLY man and FULLY God.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega" Isaiah 44:6; Rev 1:8 " I am the Alpha and the Omega" Rev 1:17; 2:8 Rev 22:13-20 WHO is the Alpha and the Omega from these verses? John 1:1-3, 14 Compare Zech 12:10 to John 19:37 Who is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords? There can only be one 1 Timothy 6:15 and Rev 19:16 and why does it say GOD purchased the Church with His OWN BLOOD? Acts 20:28? Read John 1:18

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by jdjhere

"God the Father does not have a body of flesh and bones, God the Son has a resurrected body."

This is what is obviously wrong--you have the person of Jesus Christ as having a resurrected physical body.

You deny that the Father has such--only a Spirit.

That is fine until you add "God" to the equation.

You can no longer differentiate at that level--because there is but one God there--not three, in the faith alone theology.

So--does God have a resurrected body? A simple yes or no?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

So--does God have a resurrected body? A simple yes or no?

The Father does not have a resurrected body, the Son does have a resureccted body.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The Father does not have a resurrected body, the Son does have a resureccted body.

Are you saying that God has a resurrected body?

note to lurkers: Billyray nor anyone else here that is faith alone is going to answer this question--for obvious reasons. Diversion is all one will get here.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Are you saying that God has a resurrected body?

God the Father does not have a resurrected body, God the Son has a resurrected body.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

note to lurkers: Billyray nor anyone else here that is faith alone is going to answer this question--for obvious reasons. Diversion is all one will get here.

Note to lurkers I have already answered this questions multiple times but DB is in his circling mode and gets like this by asking the same question of a variatiion over and over again. Seems to be a glitch is his matrix.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Note to lurkers I have already answered this questions multiple times but DB is in his circling mode and gets like this by asking the same question of a variatiion over and over again. Seems to be a glitch is his matrix.

No! You have not--and you won't fool a single lurker with that post.

Do you believe that God has a resurrected body?

It's a yes or no answer. Diversion into the persons of the Godhead will not answer the question.

There is but one God--either He has a resurrected body or He does not. We know about the persons.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

No! You have not--and you won't fool a single lurker with that post.

Do you believe that God has a resurrected body?

Sure I have answered your question and I will answer it again one more time for you. Perhaps you will get it this time.

God the Father does not have a resurrected body, God the Son has a resurrected body.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Sure I have answered your question and I will answer it again one more time for you. Perhaps you will get it this time.

God the Father does not have a resurrected body, God the Son has a resurrected body.

You only thing you do with those posts is show the faith alone belief to be ambiguous.

You list God there in both the Father and the Son.

You ***ign one a resurrected body and one without a resurrected body.

But yet--you believe they are the same God.

If they are the same God--they have the same substance--as the Trinitarian doctrine states--the "****ousious God".

Billyray--****ousious means same substance. A resurrected Body for God and God not having a resurrected body is not only contrary to a ****ousious God--it is downright contradictory.