So to review...
In his deity Jesus is what?........
In his deity Jesus is what?.......
The answer is that Jesus is Spirit and of the same substance with the Father.
And in the humanity Jesus is what?.......
What is Jesus in his humanity?.......
The answer is that Jesus is flesh.
and that is what Jesus is talking about with the words "A spirit does not have..."
Jesus was referring to his humanity.
So He is saying that a Spirit has no humanity? I think you are fishing for a meaning beyond what Jesus is saying.. He said that a Spirit doesn't have a body of flesh and bone.. Lets not do the twist with the Scripture.. IHS jim
Jesus was not referring to the divine nature...he was refering to his humanity.
Its like this, Jesus was the "Word" in John 1 and was pure spirit.
The word becomes flesh, but never stops being pure spirit.
This is why Jesus is said to be "The image of the invisible God", for Jesus is both God and man, both pure spirit and human flesh.
Jesus being God in his nature has the same substance as the Father and the Holy Spirit, and that substance is pure spirit.
But in his 2nd nature as being 100% human his substance is flesh.
jesus died.
Jesus died the same type of death that all men suffer, the same death that Adam died and p***ed on to all men.
Jesus overcame this death, and so we now have Jesus in s resurrected body of flesh, human flesh....but everlasting flesh.
So when Jesus said that a spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have , he is referring to his humanity.
This is then our only example of what our own resurrections will be like.
So when Jesus was pointing out his human body, he was drawing attention to his humanity.....the idea was that we can see Jesus human body, see it is now resurrected, and then have faith that our own human bodies of flesh will likewise come out of the grave one day.
Ah, remember Jesus has 2 natures, divine and?______and?_______
and 'human"!
So when the men saw him standing there after they knew he had truly died all they first thought was that it "Had to be his ghost", so Jesus told them to grab a hold of him and feel, for you cant feel a ghost....ghosts have no flesh.
But humans have flesh.....and Jesus was 100% human just as we are 100% human.
This allows us a guide to what our own resurrection will be like.
because we are just as human as Jesus is human, therefore just as Jesus was raised we then can have faith that God can also raise our own mortal human bodies from the grave.
So just because Jesus has 1st nature of being human with a body of flesh it does not mean for one second that he was not also fully God (John 20:28 )and with a 2nd nature of being divine/spirit, ( Luke 23:46).....
Last edited by alanmolstad; 04-26-2013 at 05:18 AM.
Im not sure I understood your question....But I can share what i have learned over the years...
the father has no body,,,the Father is pure spirit.
The Word of John 1:1 has no body, but in the story if the incarnation, the Bible tells us that the Word is wrapped in the flesh of a human and born of a woman.
So this does not mean that the WORD gave up being pure spirit, but rather the story tells us that the Word was given a 2nd nature.....and was made man.
Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Postagain, in his deity Jesus is spirit.Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View PostWas Jesus Christ Deity in this instance? :
Luke 24:39--King James Version (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Are you stating that Jesus was not divine in His resurrected form? Where do we find your explanation in the Bible?
Jesus has 2 natures....
fully God ("My Lord and my God")
fully man ( "the man Christ Jesus")
Both natures in the one person.
Fully God, fully man....
He died a fully human death, (just like us)
He was raised in an everlasting body of flesh and bone (just like we will be too)
have we dealt with this topic enough then?
Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---Are you stating that Jesus was not divine in His resurrected form?Does not touch my question. Was Jesus Christ, in His resurrected form--Divine?Jesus has 2 natures....
fully God ("My Lord and my God")
fully man ( "the man Christ Jesus")
Both natures in the one person.
Fully God, fully man....
He died a fully human death, (just like us)
He was raised in an everlasting body of flesh and bone (just like we will be too)
Jesus is the God/man.....always Divine, always human...
never a moment in the story of Jesus when he was not fully God and fully man...
This is the point of the incarnation, where God wrapped himself in human flesh and died as a man....so that we might have faith that one day we too will be raised just as Jesus was raised!
Thus, my answer is correct as posted -
"Jesus has 2 natures....
fully God ("My Lord and my God")
fully man ( "the man Christ Jesus")
Both natures in the one person.
Fully God, fully man....
He died a fully human death, (just like us)
He was raised in an everlasting body of flesh and bone (just like we will be too)"
Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---Are you stating that Jesus was not divine in His resurrected form?
If Jesus was Divine always--then He was Divine both as flesh and bones--and spirit.Jesus is the God/man.....always Divine, always human...
never a moment in the story of Jesus when he was not fully God and fully man...
This is the point of the incarnation, where God wrapped himself in human flesh and died as a man....so that we might have faith that one day we too will be raised just as Jesus was raised!
Thus, my answer is correct as posted -
"Jesus has 2 natures....
fully God ("My Lord and my God")
fully man ( "the man Christ Jesus")
Both natures in the one person.
Fully God, fully man....
He died a fully human death, (just like us)
He was raised in an everlasting body of flesh and bone (just like we will be too)"
And as flesh and bones:Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post----again, in his deity Jesus is spirit.
Luke 24:39---King James Version (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Jesus was always divine, but was then given a 2nd nature that is human.
He was no different than we are....
We know this because if he was different, if he was not truly "human" then the fact that god was able to raise his "non-human" body from the grave would be moot....
The resurrection of Christ would be moot as far as learning about our own resurrections...
So what the resurrection body of Jesus is for us is a guide.....
it's how we can know and have faith that God who raised Jesus from the dead will also be able to raise us too...
This is why Jesus wanted his men to handle him and have faith, for he wants us to understand that our bodies will come back to life one day, just as his did....
Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---Are you stating that Jesus was not divine in His resurrected form?Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post---Jesus is the God/man.....always Divine, always human...
never a moment in the story of Jesus when he was not fully God and fully man...
This is the point of the incarnation, where God wrapped himself in human flesh and died as a man....so that we might have faith that one day we too will be raised just as Jesus was raised!
Thus, my answer is correct as posted -
"Jesus has 2 natures....
fully God ("My Lord and my God")
fully man ( "the man Christ Jesus")
Both natures in the one person.
Fully God, fully man....
He died a fully human death, (just like us)
He was raised in an everlasting body of flesh and bone (just like we will be too)"
dberrie----If Jesus was Divine always--then He was Divine both as flesh and bones--and spirit.Again--if Jesus was always Divine--then He was Divine in any form or nature.
Yes He was. He was the Only Begotten--He had a heavenly Father and an earthly mother, as to His flesh. He was different. Unique--as to the mortal physical body.He was no different than we are....
Last edited by dberrie2000; 04-29-2013 at 03:34 AM.
Just so long as you understand that Jesus has two totally different natures...he was and is God Almighty, the only true god...("my Lord and my God")
and Jesus was and is truly 100% human just as we are, ("the MAN Christ Jesus")
so its 2 natures = one person
Actually--the "only true God" was not a designation used to denote Christ in the NT--but Christ's God.
John 17:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post---Just so long as you understand that Jesus has two totally different natures...he was and is God Almighty, the only true god...("my Lord and my God")
and Jesus was and is truly 100% human just as we are, ("the MAN Christ Jesus")
so its 2 natures = one personNo--that is just the knee-**** reaction to scriptures that defy faith alone theology.dberrie----Actually--the "only true God" was not a designation used to denote Christ in the NT--but Christ's God.
John 17:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
The fact is--the only One ever designated as the "only true God" or the "one God" in the NT was the God of Jesus Christ---God the Father.
Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Last edited by dberrie2000; 04-29-2013 at 06:19 PM.
Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post---Just so long as you understand that Jesus has two totally different natures...he was and is God Almighty, the only true god...("my Lord and my God")dberrie----Actually--the "only true God" was not a designation used to denote Christ in the NT--but Christ's God.
John 17:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post---Do you believe Christ is a false god?Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---No--that is just the knee-**** reaction to scriptures that defy faith alone theology.
The fact is--the only One ever designated as the "only true God" or the "one God" in the NT was the God of Jesus Christ---God the Father.
Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
No, anymore than John thought Jesus was a false God--or Paul. They were the ones who placed Christ outside of the "only true God" or the "one God" of the NT.
1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
It just means that the Trinitarian theology is false, as we have it today--not the Biblical text.
Billyray--the fact of the Divine Council destroyed that years ago. Or are you not aware of the fact that most Biblical scholars now accept that as a reality?